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Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

bbc.com

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Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#271

Post by WaxedChewbacca »

neltnerb wrote: post #27
lukasb wrote: post #4

Mindfulness and compassion are often talked of as "two wings of a bird" by dharma teachers - mindfulness doesn't automatically translate to compassion. This sutta makes the same point: Maṇibhadda Sutta (SN 10:4) On one occasion the Blessed One was staying among the Magadhans at the Jewel-stand Shrine, the haunt of the yakkha-spirit, Maṇibhadda [Auspicious Jewel]. Then Maṇibhadda the yakkha-spirit went to the Blessed…

My issue with this specific concept is that lots and lots of people are lazy and instead of doing compassionate things, they "feel compassion" as a generic emotion through the use of meditation. I studied Buddhism quite a while pretty seriously, and I know that a lot of the meditations involve practicing loving yourself, and your friends, family, community, and that these feelings of love are a core thing to have in…

No post body was provided.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#272

Post by manmal »

NateEag wrote: post #236
manmal wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain why one would be a shitty person if one tried to start a business that is sustainable on a few hours of work per week.

I've not read the book, but IIUC _The Four Hour Workweek_ has as its central idea that you can outsource most of your actual work to other people while accruing most of the wealth those others are creating. Not exactly a mark of great compassion or kindness, if that's actually what's presented.

Well you can't scale a business if you rely on only yourself as the workforce, so you will at some point have to outsource work to other people. It doesn't matter where those people are located. It's certainly unkind to overwork or underpay people, no matter where they are in the world (which must be looked at relative to local salaries). But that's not at all what the book recommended.

We all profit off other people's work, and are profited off of. I personally don't find this inherently problematic, since it's not a zero sum game.

To reiterate my point: I think it's not per se unkind to profit off other people's work. It's all about _how_ it's done.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#273

Post by bowsamic »

cyberpunk wrote: post #227
colordrops wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term is "spiritual bypass". You disconnect from emotions, pleasure and pain, etc, see the world as illusion, and no longer feel guilt for poor action.

This seems like quite a fundamental misunderstanding. At least the kind of buddhism I practice, you never disconnect or “no longer feel guilt” or anything like this. Yeah, during Zazen we sit in equanimity with such feelings, but that’s very different to living that way all the time (which is impossible unless you’re some kind of psycho to begin with).

> but that’s very different to living that way all the time (which is impossible unless you’re some kind of psycho to begin with).

If you are not trying to do zazen off the cushion you aren't putting in right effort. You should be aiming to manifest non-discriminating mind at all times

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#274

Post by bowsamic »

zmgsabst wrote: post #189
stevebmark wrote: post #158

The end goal of mindfulness is to make you realize that you don’t exist, you have no free will, and there is no “you.” It can be an unpleasant place to be dropped off in.

We must have different teachers, as I heard it differently: No Self is the path to Intentional Self. The goal isn’t the deconstruction of the self, but rather, that through the deconstruction of the self we can act from a place of intention rather than bias and preconceived notions. And in doing so, no longer engage in the random suffering that was thrust upon us — but the intentional suffering that comes from our ch…

> Life is suffering — the only escape to that is death; instead, we should seek to choose our suffering, as befits our goals.

I don't know what this is, but it isn't Buddhism

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#275

Post by shapefrog »

zozbot234 wrote: post #265
shapefrog wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you simply can't reach salvation and union with God without starting from right morals. If you are willing to confess your sin and repent for your mistakes with godly sorrow, God will forgive your trespasses. Even the most handsy of trespassing priests is forgiven.

Yes, but true repentance and sorrow is taken to involve concrete steps, such as doing restitution and changing one's actions in the future. Confession and repentance are not separate from a path towards purification.

Or saying 10 Hail Marys.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#276

Post by zozbot234 »

shapefrog wrote: post #275
zozbot234 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but true repentance and sorrow is taken to involve concrete steps, such as doing restitution and changing one's actions in the future. Confession and repentance are not separate from a path towards purification.

Or saying 10 Hail Marys.

Mantras, sutras, verses etc. are similarly used in Buddhism, as an instrument of focused thinking. It's not either/or, it's both.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#277

Post by gherkinnn »

lukasb wrote: post #4

Mindfulness and compassion are often talked of as "two wings of a bird" by dharma teachers - mindfulness doesn't automatically translate to compassion. This sutta makes the same point: Maṇibhadda Sutta (SN 10:4) On one occasion the Blessed One was staying among the Magadhans at the Jewel-stand Shrine, the haunt of the yakkha-spirit, Maṇibhadda [Auspicious Jewel]. Then Maṇibhadda the yakkha-spirit went to the Blessed…

"two wings of a bird". What a beautiful saying.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#278

Post by Chris2048 »

IdEntities wrote: post #39
rygxqpbsngav wrote: post #36

Bound to happen. Why do you think Buddha has to leave all his wealth and kingdom before even starting the journey of mindfulness, leaving everything behind? The western adaptation is reducing meditation and mindfulness to a "tool" of relieving stress and better ones mental well-being. As easy as downloading an app and stay calm for few minutes. Unfortunately, this is not ideal. The traditional way is to seek a guru w…

I don't know that it's necessarily fair to describe this as a purely Western phenomenon. The Lamas were a hereditary elite who ruled over Tibet in a brutal caste system which reduced most of the people in it to the status of serfs, and all with their own particular strain of Buddhism used to justify and excuse it all. On our fridge, my wife has a picture of the Dalai Lama wearing a big fancy watch on his wrist. I alw…

It seems he received it as a gift.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#279

Post by pqs »

tisdy-01 wrote: post #203
zozbot234 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that Western Christianity has pretty much the same underlying message - you simply can't reach salvation and union with God without starting from right morals. (This might be why Stoicism with its meditative and contemplative traditions, and a similar focus on divinely-inspired "right/moral action" was a key ally of early Christianity.) Islam of course has its own Sufi traditions, the Biblical prophe…

> you simply can't reach salvation and union with God without starting from right morals. This is almost the opposite of Christianity, depending on what you mean by "right morals". Christianity says you simply can't reach salvation and be with God unless you are flawless, which is humanly impossible, so unless God does something... hence Christ.

Where did you get that? Christianity teaches that God is merciful, you don't need to be perfect to receive his love.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#280

Post by pqs »

I'm amazed by this paragraph:

"He’s examined a technique known as ‘loving-kindness meditation’, for example, which is inspired by the Buddhist practice of Metta Bhavana. The practice involves contemplating people in your life – from friends and family to acquaintances and strangers – and cultivating good wishes and feelings of warmth for them."

This is regular Christian prayer. We Catholics pray for other people, every day.

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