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Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

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Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#271

Post by watwut »

slowmotiony wrote: post #262
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to the depiction above it remains as far as I know exceptionally difficult to acquire adhd treating medication; they’re almost all controlled substances, heavily regulated and consumption tightly monitored.

Really? Where? Surely not in Europe, where the psychiatrist simply asks you a couple survey questions like "Do you have difficulty finishing tasks?", "Do you overanalyze things?" or "Do you frequently interrupt others in conversations?" before giving you a script for Concerta / Medikinet. The entire survey takes 5 minutes and if I was to take it seriously, then my entire family has ADHD including the dog.

Where exactly in Europe it works like that?

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#272

Post by slowmotiony »

watwut wrote: post #271
slowmotiony wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Where? Surely not in Europe, where the psychiatrist simply asks you a couple survey questions like "Do you have difficulty finishing tasks?", "Do you overanalyze things?" or "Do you frequently interrupt others in conversations?" before giving you a script for Concerta / Medikinet. The entire survey takes 5 minutes and if I was to take it seriously, then my entire family has ADHD including the dog.

Where exactly in Europe it works like that?

Everywhere in the EU. It's not like ADHD can be diagnosed with a blood test, so you are asked questions from a standardized survey and you get a script if you answer "yes" enough times.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#273

Post by kaibee »

cja wrote: post #268
petesergeant wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in the UK, ADHD drugs are controlled substances They're controlled susbtances in the US too, but there appear to be a whole slew of sites in the US where you can fill out a form and they'll send you a perfectly legit scrip > There are not enough doctors qualified to do this, and as a result people who need the treatment are facing year-long queues. For anyone reading this who thinks they might need treatment a…

Link please because I've looked and can't find

I had success with donefirst.com

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#274

Post by faeriechangling »

themacguffinman wrote: post #255
faeriechangling wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the DSM-V definition is overly broad, and the truth behind ADHD is different, is that not fairly alarming? Currently 9.4% of children are diagnosed with ADHD[1], but we don't diagnose 9.4% of the population as having a disorder on merit of being very tall or very short. In fact, with ADHD, we're also not also counting the opposite of ADHD as a disability, so we're counting a HUGE swathe of the lower end of the spe…

Nearly half of US adults (age 20+) are estimated to have refractive errors in their vision [1], which would be a vision disorder. Other estimates I've found are even higher, with more than half of adults needing corrective eyewear. Is that swathe too huge for this demonstrably defective vision to be a disability? Is our society being condescending by inculcating the value of non-defective eyesight? Not every disorder…

>ADHD is heritable

Doesn't make it a disorder.

>But 70 - 80% of children quickly show improvements in response to stimulant therapy very quickly.

They also show improvements if they don't have diagnosed ADHD and take the drugs, as I've already cited. This says more about the drugs than the medical model of ADHD.

>That's worth a try for such a debilitating condition that sees a third of its patients drop out of high school and 5 - 10% graduate college at all.

I just don't see any reason why more and more students wouldn't take simulants so long as they can access them and tolerate them, which ought to push up standards, which ought to increase the pressure to use them. I'm generally supportive of stimulant use, but using drugs to pump grades is pretty much the LEAST compelling reason to take stimulants. I think stimulants are great to, help you cook meals, stay organized, keep your finances in order, things like that. begin with... academics.

I also don't fundamentally see low academic achievement as proving disorder. To me, I think the biggest reason something associated with low academic achievement is considered a disorder, is that the people who write the DSM and ICD are all academics, who see people with ADHD as their lessers.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#275

Post by Bedon292 »

cbfrench wrote: post #204
ascar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I don't like seeing it as a regular illness. Yes it's a complication to how society wants people to function. Work 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Go to school 6 hours a day 5 days a week. Be productive in that time frame. Keep focus on given tasks. You can take medication to adhere to these artificial expectations on how an individual should function within society. Or you can live in a way that matches your…

I generally agree with you. But on the other hand, my ADHD makes me way less reliable as an employee, a spouse, and a friend. I’m not sure it’s really right for me to expect people to continually bend over backwards to accommodate my disorder. My ADHD is an illness, and I don’t think that’s just because I’m expected to adhere to the norms of a neurotypical society. A world run according to ADHD norms would be an abso…

You put this quite well. I knew I was ADHD long ago, and just went about my life not wanting to change. And I even found a job which wasn't particularly negativley affected by it. But finally I realized how badly it was affecting my relationships with my spouse and child. I was not a reliable partner or parent. And that is what finally made me want to really understand more and try to control it better.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#276

Post by acjohnson55 »

I don't know if I have ADHD, but learning more about it, and other forms of neurodiversity, has recontextualized the first 2/3 of my life. I've usually managed to get by pretty well through life's expectations, but I have had struggles along the way that were really confusing. Places where other people seemed to have no trouble meeting expectations, but I would constantly come up short. I also relate to some of the positive aspects or adaptations that folks describe. I haven't prioritized seeking diagnosis or treatment because I've largely figured out how to get by, to my own satisfaction. Although, I know that I could be more dependable to other people if I did.

I have also suffered a couple periods of major depression, which I agree is horrible in a far less ambiguous way. I can actually identify some very positive outcomes of those episodes. Ways in which struggling my ass off to try to be okay pushed me to achieve. But I'd absolutely throw out the good with the bad, if I could. I wouldn't wish depression on my worst enemy.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#277

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

di4na wrote: post #187
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to the depiction above it remains as far as I know exceptionally difficult to acquire adhd treating medication; they’re almost all controlled substances, heavily regulated and consumption tightly monitored.

The US is quite more lax about it, state depending. Outside of them, yes it is a nightmare that looks exactly how you would design a process someone with ADHD cannot go through. I see no ill will behind it. It is just bureaucracy combined with moral panic.

Getting a prescription is only half the battle. In the US, you can't have more than a month supply. Maybe you're lucky and your doctor realizes this so writes you a larger than necessary prescription, but for most vehicles (extended release) it's not an option. Many people horde a backup stash of pills.

This means you have to get your prescription filled within a small window at the end of your previous supply if you want to avoid running out. You also can't have a recurring prescription, but a rare doctor might renew a prescription over the phone. And even then, you have to deal with pharmacies running out last minute, travel impacting your refill schedule, and health insurance coverage for the otherwise ludicrously expensive medication.

A nightmare process that someone with ADHD cannot go through indeed.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#278

Post by watwut »

slowmotiony wrote: post #272
watwut wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where exactly in Europe it works like that?

Everywhere in the EU. It's not like ADHD can be diagnosed with a blood test, so you are asked questions from a standardized survey and you get a script if you answer "yes" enough times.

It definitely does not work like that here. It is quite hard to get those drugs prescribed. You wont get them with 5 min long visit.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#279

Post by slowmotiony »

watwut wrote: post #278
slowmotiony wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere in the EU. It's not like ADHD can be diagnosed with a blood test, so you are asked questions from a standardized survey and you get a script if you answer "yes" enough times.

It definitely does not work like that here. It is quite hard to get those drugs prescribed. You wont get them with 5 min long visit.

I don't know what to tell you. I did get it exactly like I described, in Germany, and it was an online appointment.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#280

Post by nicolas_t »

shmageggy wrote: post #264
opportune wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am responding specifically to some of the paragraphs in the essay where the author mentions working non-stop for hours straight on something in a quiet room, while their peers who were "studying" were spending some of that time chatting or bothered by some distraction. Without medication, at least for me and I suspect almost all other people, hyperfocus is something that comes and goes at random and is rarely cente…

This part of the author’s account struck me as well. Like, yeah it would be great if I could summon the hyperfocus at the right moment, and sometimes impending deadlines/tests cause that, but more often than not it just doesn’t work that way. And if it does, the last-minute cram session is way more stressful and less effective than actually doing the work over time would have been. Yes, the author got that A that one…

I can focus for hours straight in a quiet room but:

a) I can't choose what to focus on. So if I need to do something but it's not the latest thing I'm obsessed about, tough luck

b) Deadlines help but if it's not something I'm obsessed about and there's no deadlines, not going to happen

My experience maps the author, I did well in university because becoming super interested in a subject and reading everything about it for a couple of weeks to the detriment of everything else worked well. Well it worked well in France where we had 2 exams a year and all exams were open book, it didn't work that well in the US where tests were more regular and memorising random uninteresting fact was expected (I lost point in a computer graphics class for not being able to give the name of companies that were members of the Opengl architectural board or when the first version was released... Who cares??)

After graduating, I'd say the fact that I get very interested in things and completely focus on them actually helped me in my career. On the other hand, my inability to do paperwork, send invoices on time (been a consultant most of my life), do my taxes etc lost me around 150k so far. So, it's a double edged sword for sure.

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