I accidentally loaned all my money to the US government • Hacker News Board

Re: I accidentally loaned all my money to the US government

#271

Post by loeg » Sun, May 01, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

nknealk wrote: post #247

gavinray wrote: post #225

Is this window the author speaks about still open? I don't know anything about money/finance. Can someone ELI5 to me if I can still get the free money from this, this year?

It’s not “free money”. The US Government offers a special savings program called iBonds (not an apple product). Technically they’re referred to as Series I bonds. These bonds are special. Each citizen can only purchase $10,000 per year. The thing that makes them special is that they have really favorable interest rates that are made up of two components. There’s a fixed component largely controlled by the Fed. Curren…

> There’s a fixed component largely controlled by the Fed. Currently this is essential 0%

I mean, it's exactly 0%. https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds...

> The bond is special because that 8% is really high compared to other risk free instruments. For example, compare that 8% to what you’re earning on your savings account.

Some people might call that special high interest "free money."

Re: I accidentally loaned all my money to the US government

#272

Post by londons_explore » Sun, May 01, 2022, 4:21 PM UTC

adrianmonk wrote: post #240

msrenee wrote: post #13

I'm missing the logic of the second 10k. He had already exceeded the limit. Why did he think that doing it again would change the outcome? It looks to me like he was going to get the extra $25 returned to him and have 10k in bonds. It's definitely vague though.

They assumed the government's software would do this: (1) Purchase #1 for $25 successful --> reduce remaining limit from $10000 to $9975. (2) Purchase #2 for $10000 rejected and refund pending --> DO NOT reduce limit since you know the purchase didn't go through. (3) Purchase #3 for $9975 within limit --> allow purchase, reduce limit to exactly $0. Instead, at step 2, the software seems to handle the purchase by unco…

I expect the logic for allowing a transaction looks at all 'purchases', including the current one, and sees if the total is over 10,000. If it is, throw an error, send an automated email, and let a human deal with reversing the transaction when they see what happened in the error log.

Re: I accidentally loaned all my money to the US government

#273

Post by msrenee » Sun, May 01, 2022, 4:22 PM UTC

LocalPCGuy wrote: post #248

msrenee wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say you go to the refrigerator store and they are selling fridges for $100 each, limit 10, or as stated in this store, limit $1000 in fridges. You give them $1100 to buy 11 fridges. They refund the excess purchase, which would be $100 or one fridge. At least that's my logic here. I feel like the excess purchase is that extra $25 plus the third transaction. But who knows, honestly? It's probably tied up in some barely…

You can describe your interpretation all you want, but the English used (excess purchase) is able to be interpreted in either way (the excess over the allowed about or a singular purchase that went over the allowed amount). There is no real way to know which is accurate in this situation unless the OP or someone who works there answers the question.

Is there a problem with me explaining my interpretation? That's all I ever said I was doing. A lot of people were only talking about the excess basically having to be the entire order, so I put in my 2 cents. I never said it was the only possibility.

Edit: I went back to double check that I hadn't replied more times than I realized or something. Nope, 3 whole comments explaining how I thought it might work out. That's if you count the first one where I honestly didn't understand how the author came to the conclusion they should input another $10k.

Re: I accidentally loaned all my money to the US government

#274

Post by loeg » Sun, May 01, 2022, 4:22 PM UTC

tallanvor wrote: post #267

nknealk wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not “free money”. The US Government offers a special savings program called iBonds (not an apple product). Technically they’re referred to as Series I bonds. These bonds are special. Each citizen can only purchase $10,000 per year. The thing that makes them special is that they have really favorable interest rates that are made up of two components. There’s a fixed component largely controlled by the Fed. Curren…

Note that the fixed component is fixed for the life of the bond - so bonds purchased while the fixed rate is 0% will be 0% for the lifetime of the bond. The rate tied to inflation is set every 6 months (May 1 and November 1), and when you buy a bond, the rate holds for 6 months. So if you bought on April 25, then in October you would get approximately 3.6% of the value of the bonds you bought, and the rate would rese…

> when the rate is negative which can happen.

It can't happen -- I-bonds have a composite rate floor of 0%.

Re: I accidentally loaned all my money to the US government

#275

Post by scarface74 » Sun, May 01, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

elzbardico wrote: post #220

vasco wrote: post #32

The venn diagram of internet users that read about super specific financial products, decide to buy them, while not even understanding the need to keep an emergency fund such that a move like this leaves them with under $200 in their account seems to be growing. It seems to be a weird mix of wall street cosplay and financial ineptitude.

People are desperate about the future. Gone are the times when having a good job, paying a reasonable mortgage for a reasonably paid house, saving a reasonable amount for retirement, while keeping a reasonable amount for emergencies (rare, before lay-offs become the knee jerk reaction of MBAs to fatten their bonuses). Due to the increasing financialization of the economy, more and more people feel like they need to b…

Isn’t buying a US backed bond the opposite of “speculation”?. The rate of return for a US bond has been called the “risk free rate of return” since I was in grad school over two decades ago.

Re: I accidentally loaned all my money to the US government

#276

Post by loeg » Sun, May 01, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

dev_tty01 wrote: post #217

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what gets me. I would *never* send $10k just to see what happens in that scenario. Why would I want to risk that something goes awry???

The system is so poorly designed, who's to say his unusual behavior will be handled properly? That second 10K might just disappear. He let curiosity override the rational, cynical side of his brain. It happens.

Say what you want about the software, but that 10k won't disappear.

Re: I accidentally loaned all my money to the US government

#277

Post by smachiz » Sun, May 01, 2022, 4:25 PM UTC

delecti wrote: post #261

smachiz wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they refund the entirety of the second transaction, logic follows a third transaction of $9,975 would be correct if you actually wanted to buy $10k. I suspect that's not what's going to happen though. OP will get a refund of $25 + $9,975.

But would you be willing to bet $850 that your interpretation of the error message is correct? Because that's the decision the author had to make. (Or I suppose they'd be betting $850 minus 8.5% of $25)

Not exactly. They’re betting the difference between 8.5% and whatever CPI is in 6 months. It might even be higher in 6 months.

Re: I accidentally loaned all my money to the US government

#278

Post by scarface74 » Sun, May 01, 2022, 4:26 PM UTC

tmpz22 wrote: post #163

antihero wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because in tech you are paid so fucking much that any ridiculous screw up you might do only affects you momentarily, you can still afford your bizzaro happy life, if you've fucked your savings money there's always more cash for rent, bills, enjoyment, on the horizon. Life become a fucking toy on some levels. There is no fear.

A lot of FANNG is non-software roles. A lot of FANNG are contractors. A lot of FANNG is over leveraged (house, random tax liabilities, supporting family members). I’m utterly convinced FANNG comp is overvalued due to selection bias on Blind and direct PR efforts by those companies.

When someone talks about “people working for a FAANG”, realistically no one is referring to Amazon warehouse workers neither are people talking about Uber drivers. Mostly they are talking about software engineers and adjacent roles.

Thats not meant to throw shade on warehouse workers as “lesser”. My dad is retired factory worker.

Re: I accidentally loaned all my money to the US government

#279

Post by todd8 » Sun, May 01, 2022, 4:28 PM UTC

Roughly the same thing happened to me on a much much bigger scale. I was making an estimated income tax prepayment (as required by law) on the ridiculous IRS direct pay site. There was no way to undo my error that I could find on the IRS websites. I foolishly thought that when the IRS web page said something like “system problem try again later” meant that I should try again later.

I feel like the agencies should just let Visa or Mastercard handle billing and collection.

Re: I accidentally loaned all my money to the US government

#280

Post by adrianmonk » Sun, May 01, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

leephillips wrote: post #250

adrianmonk wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They assumed the government's software would do this: (1) Purchase #1 for $25 successful --> reduce remaining limit from $10000 to $9975. (2) Purchase #2 for $10000 rejected and refund pending --> DO NOT reduce limit since you know the purchase didn't go through. (3) Purchase #3 for $9975 within limit --> allow purchase, reduce limit to exactly $0. Instead, at step 2, the software seems to handle the purchase by unco…

The email clearly says that the excess purchase will be refunded. He lost me here; I was mystified when he decided to purchase another $9975.

Oh, I think the email is ambiguous! I had a totally different interpretation, although I absolutely see yours now.

I interpreted "refund of the excess purchase" to mean that it is a refund of the whole purchase. If it were a partial refund, they could have just written "refund of the excess".

By adding "purchase", they made it sound to me like there are two categories of purchases (excess and non-excess) and that this purchase belongs to the excess category. That is, I saw "excess" as an adjective that says why the refund is happening, not how much is being refunded.

The more I analyze the wording, the less I'm sure which interpretation is right.