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Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

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Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing against a strawman. Nobody said that taking a particular side of a debate makes you dumb. This isn't about what side you take, it's about how you choose to debate . HN used to be a place that cared deeply about conversing in a civil, responsible, and educational manner. Whether or not you agree with the sentiments expressed in the parent comment, the fact is that it doesn't meet those standards. Even i…

"Even if the logic wasn't childish ("fuck X by association", really?)" My point is, aiding x in its mission makes you an accomplice. You can argue that x is not bad or as bad is it is being made out to be, but being a partner makes you exactly that, a partner.

> My point is, aiding x in its mission makes you an accomplice. You can argue that x is not bad or as bad is it is being made out to be, but being a partner makes you exactly that, a partner.

This is an overly-idealistic way to look at a complex world, and taking such a stance would surely make you a hypocrite. As I asked another commenter: Do you not use a bank? Pay taxes to a government? Buy food, shelter, and other products? Well then, you've undoubtedly patronized at least a few entities who have committed horrible atrocities. So, by your own logic, fuck you.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Even if the logic wasn't childish ("fuck X by association", really?)" My point is, aiding x in its mission makes you an accomplice. You can argue that x is not bad or as bad is it is being made out to be, but being a partner makes you exactly that, a partner.

> My point is, aiding x in its mission makes you an accomplice. You can argue that x is not bad or as bad is it is being made out to be, but being a partner makes you exactly that, a partner. This is an overly-idealistic way to look at a complex world, and taking such a stance would surely make you a hypocrite. As I asked another commenter: Do you not use a bank? Pay taxes to a government? Buy food, shelter, and othe…

[deleted]

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Even if the logic wasn't childish ("fuck X by association", really?)" My point is, aiding x in its mission makes you an accomplice. You can argue that x is not bad or as bad is it is being made out to be, but being a partner makes you exactly that, a partner.

> My point is, aiding x in its mission makes you an accomplice. You can argue that x is not bad or as bad is it is being made out to be, but being a partner makes you exactly that, a partner. This is an overly-idealistic way to look at a complex world, and taking such a stance would surely make you a hypocrite. As I asked another commenter: Do you not use a bank? Pay taxes to a government? Buy food, shelter, and othe…

First off, I never swore, I was referring to the logic part, so please don't swear at me (not cool).

Secondly, you're calling me overly idealistic and simple minded, the world a complex place, yet make your case by comparing an individual citizen bound by legal obligations they can't escape without jail time or leaving the country to a corporate partnership made out of free will? Think of comparing the two then think about the names you called me. I'll let you be the judge.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is, aiding x in its mission makes you an accomplice. You can argue that x is not bad or as bad is it is being made out to be, but being a partner makes you exactly that, a partner. This is an overly-idealistic way to look at a complex world, and taking such a stance would surely make you a hypocrite. As I asked another commenter: Do you not use a bank? Pay taxes to a government? Buy food, shelter, and othe…

First off, I never swore, I was referring to the logic part, so please don't swear at me (not cool). Secondly, you're calling me overly idealistic and simple minded, the world a complex place, yet make your case by comparing an individual citizen bound by legal obligations they can't escape without jail time or leaving the country to a corporate partnership made out of free will? Think of comparing the two then think…

> First off, I never swore, I was referring to the logic part, so please don't swear at me (not cool).

Whether you swore or not, you're defending the comment "fuck Cloudant by association". Don't you think it's hypocritical to back up that type of language when it's directed at others, but criticize it when it's directed at you? You can't have it both ways. Either it's an immature way to conduct a discussion or it's not.

> yet make your case by comparing an individual citizen bound by legal obligations they can't escape without jail time or leaving the country to a corporate partnership made out of free will? Think of comparing the two then think about the names you called me. I'll let you be the judge.

I gave you a short list of offenses you've committed, and you've only attempted to defend yourself against one of them (paying income taxes). Furthermore, your defense is pretty poor: "leaving the country" would be inconvenient. And you don't think it would be inconvenient for companies to refuse to do business with others who have at some point committed an ethics violation?

I'm sorry but your entire position is full of double standards that you can't justify. When you bend over backwards and make the countless sacrifices necessary to live your life without supporting questionable organizations, then you can come back and criticize others for not doing the same.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, I never swore, I was referring to the logic part, so please don't swear at me (not cool). Secondly, you're calling me overly idealistic and simple minded, the world a complex place, yet make your case by comparing an individual citizen bound by legal obligations they can't escape without jail time or leaving the country to a corporate partnership made out of free will? Think of comparing the two then think…

> First off, I never swore, I was referring to the logic part, so please don't swear at me (not cool). Whether you swore or not, you're defending the comment "fuck Cloudant by association". Don't you think it's hypocritical to back up that type of language when it's directed at others, but criticize it when it's directed at you? You can't have it both ways. Either it's an immature way to conduct a discussion or it's…

[deleted]

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were apolitical, you wouldn't see monsanto as "a company which pushes injustice across the world". Notice that this thread is full of such disparaging assertions, but no actual details, no citations, and the closest anyone gets is to pointing to people who have a very clear political agenda who make accusations against monsanto. "what is essentially a very well held and defensible position" I think this is wha…

I would have agreed with you except you ignored that I did indicate a specific incidence, the fact they hold a Superfund site. I didn't want to get back and forth on points, as I knew pg would not wish to debate them. I did a full research study on Monsanto as part of TA'ing for a Professor who taught "International Political Economy" of Food & Hunger. I'm about as informed on the subject as I'm going to get short of…

So... I just read http://www.isb.vt.edu/news/2008/artspdf/feb0803.pdf ... the "meat of things", as you put it.

It describes a farmer who knowingly violated an agreement he signed with Monsanto; then Monsanto suing said farmer, and winning.

I have no idea why this would make Monsanto an "evil company". I just don't get it. The farmer was under no obligation to sign the agreement.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#278
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have agreed with you except you ignored that I did indicate a specific incidence, the fact they hold a Superfund site. I didn't want to get back and forth on points, as I knew pg would not wish to debate them. I did a full research study on Monsanto as part of TA'ing for a Professor who taught "International Political Economy" of Food & Hunger. I'm about as informed on the subject as I'm going to get short of…

So... I just read http://www.isb.vt.edu/news/2008/artspdf/feb0803.pdf ... the "meat of things", as you put it. It describes a farmer who knowingly violated an agreement he signed with Monsanto; then Monsanto suing said farmer, and winning. I have no idea why this would make Monsanto an "evil company". I just don't get it. The farmer was under no obligation to sign the agreement.

I'm making my reply to the one below yours to the other commenter who asked for more information. There is plenty more to chew through.

Re: Monsanto chooses Cloudant to power its genome analytics

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have agreed with you except you ignored that I did indicate a specific incidence, the fact they hold a Superfund site. I didn't want to get back and forth on points, as I knew pg would not wish to debate them. I did a full research study on Monsanto as part of TA'ing for a Professor who taught "International Political Economy" of Food & Hunger. I'm about as informed on the subject as I'm going to get short of…

Actually, if you don't mind spending a few minutes to go on a bit further, I think it would be useful to have it all archived here for future reference.

There's a lot here, so sorry that I am just dumping links in, but I'll be glad to come back and expand on anything if you like.

people of anniston, AL vs. Monsanto http://www.chemicalindustryarchives.org/dirtysecrets/annisto...

scotus scuttles lower court ruling to stop gmo planting: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/09-475.pdf

chimeric gene - http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/images/stories/opinions-orders/...

general monsanto info - http://www.monsantowatch.org/

groundwater pollution - http://yosemite.epa.gov/r10/cleanup.nsf/4c5259381f6b967d8825...

monsanto uses front group to fund against anti-GMO ballot initiative - http://www.organicconsumers.org/monsanto/measureh122903.cfm

one of my favorites, can you see the parallels between Monsanto and the RIAA? You could point this one in favor of Monsanto, but if you are like me and think that pushing terminator seeds to small farmers is a terrible thing then you will see it a different light. Often times they give out the seeds free the first year then have you stuck on them, comparisons could be made to drug pushers: http://www.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/knowledge_goods/monsanto.h...

Here's one against the idea that Monsanto's products are "always better" than non-GMO agriculture: http://ourworld.unu.edu/en/monsanto%E2%80%99s-cotton-strateg...

Excerpt: "Monsanto entered India in 2002 with some very compelling advertising. They claimed their engineered seeds would produce yields up to five times that of conventional cotton – 20 quintals per acre (equivalent to approximately 4.5 bales) compared to the 4 quintals (less than 1 bale) farmers were struggling to pull from their fields at the time. At the time, Monsanto admitted that their seeds costed more but insisted that investment would pay dividends.

Unfortunately the average yield of Monsanto’s GE cotton turned out to be nowhere near the advertised 20 quintals per acre. In reality the average output of the crop turned out to be 1.2 quintals per acre. Nowhere in India did it exceed 4 quintals per acre at the end of the harvest. To add insult to injury, farmers soon found out that the fibers produced by the Monsanto GE cotton plants were of lower quality. Instead of getting the usual $86 per quintal, they were only able to sell their crops for around $36 per quintal. On average since 2002, of the farmers in India, many of whom fell into the Monsanto trap, one is committing suicide every 30 minutes. Many end their lives by drinking RoundUp."

The list goes on, if you've read this far and want more, I'll be glad to dig up some more of the material.

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