Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not wait a year and cash all the checks at once?
Because that is fraud and you will go to prison.
The checks would probably just bounce.
Why I'll never use Affirm again
271–280 of 298 posts
Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you dispute a charge that took place between Affirm and the delinquent merchant? Affirm has your money. Affirms partner hasn't delivered on your merchandise. Affirm by being the one in possession of your money for which you have received nothing is the one in breach of your agreement and has no power to enforce terms for an agreement it has violated.
How do you charge back usually? You contact your credit card provider right? You don't just avoid paying your credit card... you contact the ones that credited you the money. In this case this is Affirm the creditor (I know you got 2 credits here, but that's a choice). You got 2 contracts here, one to pay back a loan, an another with the merchant, and sadly, when you don't pay back a credit, it get on your credit rep…
Ok so this is what an affirm transaction looks like. You go to bobsite it says you can have a widget by paying now or if you click this radio button and select affirm there will be a only slightly different flow where you without leaving bobs site you agree to pay for it over time with the same payment card you have on file with bobsite for regular purchases. Click Complete purchase done.
Your money flows from you -> affirm -> merchant in a singular transaction that is actuated by several automatically scheduled payments at the appointed dates.
No transaction flowed between you -> merchant to charge back. Given that actually litigating a dispute in multiple states would be thousands of dollars your only actual options are let them keep all your money even if they are in effect defrauding you OR issue a chargeback to the party that collected your money and let THEM handle retrieving any money transferred from them to the merchant who ultimately didn't fulfill their duty.
You will note that due to the high cost of retrieving your money the merchant has absolutely no reason not to just keep your money and ignore your phone calls. They after all already have the money they were going to make off you. It cannot afford to not pick up the phone for Affirm because it intends to via its continuing relationship to continue making money.
Fundamentally every transaction you undertake is intermediated usually through a multitude of levels whoever actually takes your money be it affirm or walmart has no right to be paid if the goods aren't delivered and acquires in addition to your money the obligation of making the customer whole first and then seeking redress up the food chain.
This is only untrue when there are two distinct different not directly related transactions. Get a generic credit card and use it to buy a TV for example. It would make little sense for chase to expect to be paid $500,000 for a house it turned out the seller had no right to sell or $50,000 for a car that was never delivered due to mischance. In both cases even though you had agreed to borrow that money the transaction would be unwound and not merely by you. This unwinding in case of a failure by merchant to deliver product financed is an expected part of such an interaction in part because such transactions almost always concern a great deal of money.
A situation whereby a singular purchase actuated by a button click is treated as 2 distinct transactions with virtually no recourse for any sort of misbehavior violates decades of consumer expectations and the ground rules under which we all presently do business. It is surprising and harmful.
Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again
#273Getting a loan for such a small amount and for an online transaction, sounds like a poor decision. I honestly don't understand people using these tools, they seem a recipe for disaster.
When I didn't have money to purchase the things I wanted I saved and then purchased the item, I didn't get a loan.
A chargeback to Affirm sounds like a bureaucracy nightmare, couldn't the op contact Affirm and get them to chargeback the merchant? Do they have a procedure for this?
That said, Affirm exhibited terrible customer support and for that they should be held accountable.
Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ultraconservative investment vehicle Which pays less than 1% APR. Over six weeks. On a purchase of $271. Congratulations, you saved 31¢.
I probably wouldn’t bother for a $271 purchase but if we’re talking a several thousand dollar computer financed over a year, sure. Worth a few bucks.
You'll get back 1$ every 1000$.
(1000 x 0.01 x 6 / 52).
8$ if you invest in the market long term and get a 8% return.
Not worth the headache in any case. This is a tool to allow poor people to get even more in debt.
Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would think that the better thing -- in an ideal world -- would be to contact Affirm and tell them to withhold payment from the merchant, since the merchant had not provided the goods. That way you'd still be in Affirm's good graces. But considering how this particular situation went as-is, I doubt Affirm would handle that request in any useful manner. Then again, I feel like this was a bit of an unusual situation…
Affirm is not like a credit card. They actually put your loan with Cross River Bank and are just the middle-man who collects commissions and collects fees from merchants for advertising on Affirm.com/app. I learned this the hard way... they care not if you get the item, or if it is good, or if it is a scam. Affirm is oblivious to it all. Just collecting fees.
Cross River might originate your loan, but AFAIK this is basically just a workaround for regulation on loan origination. Affirm just buys the loans back from Cross River once they have been funded, so they bear the credit risk.
(It sounds like it’s more complex than this, but I doubt Cross River has significant exposure to Affirm loans.)
Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and they were unresponsive to my requests for a shipping date There wasn’t an issue with Affirm not paying the money onward, why go to them. Once again, Affirm have agreed to give credit to this company, that relationship is theirs. If their client isn’t fulfilling their duties it’s Affirms problem too. Credit cards work like this, you pay your 2-4% fee and you’re guaranteed what you expected to receive. Hence why…
> airlines changing peoples tickets out for credit during the pandemic was easily routed around via a cc charge back You still owe them the money. The airline can stop you from boarding a future flight. Chargebacks are not magic debt elimination tools. https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/12/ryanair-ban...
Sounds to me like Ryanair is on rocky footing with the law here. They refuse service, they issue a refund. Simple as that. They owe those people money. Unfortunate the courts didn't resolve it.
Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again
#277Who takes a loan for a $271 purchase?
TONS of people. And these companies live off of the fees for unpaid "buy now, pay later" mini-loans. Say what you want about freedoms, but it's just incredibly scummy to trick people who don't know better into signing up for something like this. If it was up to me, I'd just ban that sort of business.
Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again
#278Hi, I am the CEO at Affirm. I am sorry for the bad experience you appear to have had with our customer support — it is certainly not what we strive for. Please email me at max.levchin @ affirm.com with either the transaction ID or the email address you used to register, and I will track down exactly what happened here. I realize you may not care at this point, but I’d greatly appreciate it, as it will help us prevent…
Max, check out “The Effortless Experience” - how Verizon took care of this same challenge.
There’s a way to provide cost optimized customer service that doesn’t put the burden on the customer to drive the process.
Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and they were unresponsive to my requests for a shipping date There wasn’t an issue with Affirm not paying the money onward, why go to them. Once again, Affirm have agreed to give credit to this company, that relationship is theirs. If their client isn’t fulfilling their duties it’s Affirms problem too. Credit cards work like this, you pay your 2-4% fee and you’re guaranteed what you expected to receive. Hence why…
> airlines changing peoples tickets out for credit during the pandemic was easily routed around via a cc charge back You still owe them the money. The airline can stop you from boarding a future flight. Chargebacks are not magic debt elimination tools. https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/12/ryanair-ban...
If that was the case, Turkish airlines had 4 more days to wait until we went to mediation with MasterCard. They could’ve proved their point and taken the money.
They didn’t, they backed out and handed the money back. 1600usd.
The concept that I still owe them money after they were unable to fulfill their duties is laughable, so much so, they wouldn’t even back themselves.
Edit, just to make it clear cc chargebacks aren’t some hit and run scheme
To get to the point I did. I had to
1 convince my bank I was right before they opened any dispute
2 defend myself against evidence the airline put forward saying they were right
3 wait 164 days for my money
And 1600usd vs never using Turkish airlines again… I’ll take the money.
Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
I cannot say anything wrt this specific case but it definitely depends. Where I'm from you'd basically make 2 contracts: one purchase agreement and then another one for the money, which is basically just a credit you've gotta pay back. So here you'd have to contact the seller, as the other party merely gave you a credit with hopefully good terms
Where are you from?
What OP describes sounds like the German systems with the abstraction system I think it's called.