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The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

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Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#271

Post by InitialLastName »

thrwy_918 wrote: post #120
nostrebored wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why get one? A passport/passport card is a _better_ ID document in almost every way. State non-motorist IDs should really cease to exist and we should increase access to passport cards

>State non-motorist IDs should really cease to exist State non-motorist IDs are some of the only IDs available to non-citizens who live in the US and don't drive

Don't they presumably have a US alien ID (Green Card or otherwise) and/or a foreign passport? What other documents could they use to establish identity to be able to get a State ID?

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#272

Post by tssva »

skyechurch wrote: post #224
caymanjim wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OTC medicines that by current standards would not be made OTC Acetaminophen would almost certainly be in this category, if it could even get FDA approval at all. The effective dose is dangerously close to a toxic dose that causes liver damage, and not comfortably-far from the LD50. The only reasons acetaminophen is OTC is that it's been informally grandfathered in, makes an absolute fortune for pharmaceutical compa…

This is very silly, acetaminophen is very effective against pain, and for many people (e.g. me) is tolerated much better, especially at higher doses, than ibuprofen etc. There is already way to much panic about drugs/medicines, especially pain meds, especially especially for chronic conditions, without further hysterics about the 'threat' of useful and well tolerated chemicals. (Not a doctor, not offering medical adv…

I find acetaminophen almost completely useless for pain. Ibuprofen is better but still not very effective. Naproxen sodium is the only OTC pain medicine which is effective for me.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#273

Post by throwra620 »

joecool1029 wrote: post #150

Phenylephrine does have one use that the author missed: It's used in ophthalmology to dilate the pupils before eye exams. On the topic of other use case medications, I used to take Sudafed (the real pseudoephedrine kind) during allergy season for a few weeks each year and noticed my productivity skyrocketed during that time, when I normally had issues context switching. Eventually I narrowed it down to taking Sudafed…

No post body was provided.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#274

Post by rscho »

paulmd wrote: post #261
astrange wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you actually an MD? I actually only ever hear about acetaminophen/paracetamol being dangerous from Americans - in other Anglo countries everyone will happily suggest you take it all the time, it is available OTC, and it comes as something kids will mistake for lemonade. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lemsip-Cold-Blackcurrant-Flavour-Sa... > Ibuprofen and Aspirin are not perfect but they are much, much, much safer than…

No, I am not. It's a dune reference. Ulcers ("destroying your stomach lining") is less bad than "destroying your liver", and typically you will have to screw up harder before other NSAIDs reach that level. Tylenol literally is dangerous following the directions on the bottle , because those directions aren't calibrated for chronic usage, when they say "daily max" they don't mean you take it daily , that dose is even…

This is wrong. Kidney failure from NSAIDs is very common, and also very dangerous. And can develop at recommended dosage.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#275

Post by ulfw »

paulmd wrote: post #215
genghisjahn wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this "dangerously close to toxic"? Extra strength is 500mg. Adults should not take more than 3000mg in a day. Taking 7000 more more can lead to liver problems. https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/002598.htm Common dosage forms and strengths: Suppository: 120 mg, 125 mg, 325 mg, 650 mg Chewable tablets: 80 mg Junior tablets: 160 mg Regular strength: 325 mg Extra strength: 500 mg Liquid: 160 mg/teaspoon (5 mill…

5:1 ratio (a dose is "take two 325mg") between therapeutic and danger doses is really low as far as modern drugs would be concerned. Most drugs are more in the 50:1 or 100:1 range, drugs with a 5:1 ratio typically would not be approved and certainly would require very close supervision. Tylenol being OTC is complete insanity (or rather, regulatory capture and general public comfort with it). Also note that those dosa…

Actually every country is different in that regard. In many parts of Asia (e.g. Singapore, Hong Kong) good luck even finding ibuprofen or aspirin. It's usually behind the counter rather than in open display.

Instead there's dozens and dozens of GSK's Panadol paracetamol (acetaminophen), some of which even next to a cash register as a throw in.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#276

Post by radicality »

ibejoeb wrote: post #192
leetbulb wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have any form of identification, getting pseudoephedrine from a pharmacy is probably not too high on your to-do list.

I suspect you're wrong. How many people do you think would prefer not having medication to having medication?

He’s definitely wrong. Sometime last year I had a cold and I know pseudoephedrine helps me.

I ran out and wanted to buy some at the local cvs. Now, I’m not a US citizen but I’ve been here a few years already and am a permanent resident. I do not have a US state ID or a US driving license, and in my many years it has _never_ been a problem. Everyone was always happy with my green card as my ID - bars, domestic flights, international flights back to USA, bank account openings etc. But not for purchasing pseudoephedrine at CVS…

I literally stood there with my green card and my European passport and was begging the cvs clerk to sell it to me, but the told me it’s impossible, system doesn’t accept those IDs (and they tried, even showed me their computer screen). And so I had to leave empty handed and with a runny nose, and came back later with an American friend to buy it…

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#277

Post by mypalmike »

Rediscover wrote: post #165
techsupporter wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With explanation in abstract that its easier to buy meth than pseudoephedrine. People may laugh at this, as they should since it is an absurd situation, but this isn't entirely wrong. Neither my wife or I drive and during the pandemic she gave up her license after getting an appointment at the DOL was difficult. Both of us carry US passport cards as our ID. This has resulted in several situations where we've been t…

Gotta chime in on this. Seattle (in general a great place) has some pretty horrible things re: purchasing alcohol. Idiot/mis-placed store/bar-workers who only want a state ID. My U.S. passport=NO. My U.N. passport=NO. Freakin' weird. Edit: I worked at Boeing for eight years, very often in a sec/reserved area. My passport was good there. Buying booze down the street from [Boeing] plant 2, no.

Weird. Even during covid when I was wearing a mask, I never got ID checked at a store in WA. It seems much laxer here than in other states I've lived in.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#278

Post by replygirl »

seszett wrote: post #267
paulmd wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doesn't get you high. this is the big one. Phenyl-epinephrine doesn't work at all, it's consistently failed to outperform placebo, and the only reason it's on the market is because the FDA doesn't like pseudo-ephedrine (sudafed) because it can be used as a precursor for meth. Same reason they've required individual blister packs for sudafed (if only there was some illicit drug which gave you the focus and drive to…

Not sure I understand what you're saying about blister packaging? Are there drugs that don't come in blister packaging in the US? Here all I can think about are the paracetamol/acetaminophen effervescent tablets that come in tubes of 8 x 1g (or 16 x 500mg).

oxy doesn't even come in blister packs here. at least not as of a few years ago, when i got it for spraining my ankle

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#279

Post by rscho »

Robotbeat wrote: post #138
bcrescimanno wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to the regulation of pseudoephedrine, NyQuil also contained pseudoephedrine and since the nasal congestion from a a virus can often be the most disruptive factor for sleep (at least, in my personal experience, that's the case) it's considered by some to the be most important component. NyQuil with pseudoephedrine included is now marketed as "NyQuil D" and is available behind many pharmacy counters with the same…

I feel like the true “Cocaine Cola Classic” would still have some of that, um, regulated stimulant in it. Cocaine. Might be good for decongestion?

Cocaine is indeed an excellent decongestant. To the point that it'll pierce a hole through your nasal septum through vasoconstriction.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine

#280

Post by ajross »

travisathougies wrote: post #159
dataangel wrote: post #146

I've recently had to deal with the medical profession a lot more than in the past and I'm finding this sort of thing everywhere. OTC medicines that by current standards would not be made OTC, surgeries that are extremely common but have never had quality randomized trials, official sounding diagnoses that on inspection are actually defined as "we have no idea", lack of consensus about how to treat some of the most co…

You seem to be under the impression that there is some 'advanced technology' out there that will magically solve your problems that the US fails to have. In my experience, many people have a quasi-religious belief in the capability of modern medicine to perform what would otherwise be called a miracle. This belief is typically held without any evidence whatsoever. In reality, there are a plethora of conditions, some…

> In my experience, many people have a quasi-religious belief in the capability of modern medicine to perform what would otherwise be called a miracle. This belief is typically held without any evidence whatsoever.

Modern medical results would absolutely be viewed as a miracle to someone just a few decades back. Something like 90% of cancer cases are either cured or successfully suppressed (to the extent that the sufferer ends up dying of some other cause). Almost all endemic diseases have vaccines. Virtually no one dies of a bacterial infection today. Even most autoimmune disorders have effective treatments now.

The fact that there are problems yet to solve in medicine, and remaining voodoo in its practice, still doesn't change the fact that we're living in a miraculous age.

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