He mentions that tech is increasingly willing to hire without a degree. I think that's a fascinating trend and it would be super interesting to know the % of jobs in different fields requiring a college degree over time, as well as the % actually employed in the field without a degree.
I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears
271–280 of 1001 posts
Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
> STEM jobs are the main viable path for economic stability and freedom. People repeat that but what is it based on? Most of the population, including most people who have economic stability and freedom, have not had STEM jobs and very likely will not have STEM jobs. More importantly, college is about much more than job training. College prepares people to be adults in every way, not to be a resource for corporations…
> College prepares people to be adults in every way, not to be a resource for corporations. Only 2% of Bangladeshis go to college. Are the rest not adults? Indeed, I’d say the opposite is true. Apart from job training, the main function of college in America seems to be extending adolescence and deferring dealing with the real world. 18 year olds in Bangladesh are a lot more “adult” than many college-educated 30-some…
My 19 year old mother in Pakistan might have been a lot more adult because she had me, but I'm sure having to forego her career for a marriage with a Rs 10000 mehr was something she would have liked to have had a few more choices about. Get a grip on yourself, man. (And yes, she went to college there too)
Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
> STEM jobs are the main viable path for economic stability and freedom. People repeat that but what is it based on? Most of the population, including most people who have economic stability and freedom, have not had STEM jobs and very likely will not have STEM jobs. More importantly, college is about much more than job training. College prepares people to be adults in every way, not to be a resource for corporations…
> College prepares people to be adults in every way, not to be a resource for corporations. Only 2% of Bangladeshis go to college. Are the rest not adults? Indeed, I’d say the opposite is true. Apart from job training, the main function of college in America seems to be extending adolescence and deferring dealing with the real world. 18 year olds in Bangladesh are a lot more “adult” than many college-educated 30-some…
I'm sure you have some knowledge that I could learn from, but it requires both of us and most of that is inflammatory and hyperbole. Let's both try curiosity and bringing valuable knowledge to the table?
> 18 year olds in Bangladesh are a lot more “adult”
Imagine an 18 year old in the US. They could go to college and learn more about the world, themselves, etc., or get a menial job, an apartment, and become more adult. In fact, any learning or training is about investing in the future. Any investment is about current sacrifice (time, money, etc.) for better future returns.
We could also ask the same question - and it was asked, by prior generations - about 12 year olds, who could become adults and work in coal mines. People used to get married at that age too. In Judaism, 13 year old males technically become adults by completing their Bar Mitzvahs (obviously an ancient tradition). Were they better off? Was our society better off? Is there some benefit to achieving adulthood sooner?
Taking it further, kids who lack effective parenting, either through accident or neglect, often grow up fast. And lacking that time to be kids, to learn and explore and grow themselves, costs them for the rest of their lives. I grew a lot in high school and college, and I would have missed so much if I had to be a full-fledged adult then.
The argument that prior generations lacked college educations and therefore future ones have nothing to gain, or that it's an insult to prior generations to say there is something to gain, seem very flawed for obvious reasons. It's wrong that so many people in Bangledesh, who are just as able to grow and benefit, are denied the opportunity and those benefits.
Let's keep building and improving a world so that they, like so many others over the last several decades, become the first in their families to benefit from college.
Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you think about German kids being sent to different kinds of highschools at age 10. Most of the people attending Hauptschule don't attend university [0]. In some regions 60% of the children attend it. Aren't you concerned that the person who could discover the cure for cancer is in Hauptschule right now? Imagine a Germany in which the rest of your life isn't determined at age ten. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.o…
In fact Uğur Şahin CEO of BioNTech and co-inventor of the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccine was recommended by his teacher to attend a hauptschule. If his German neighbor hadn't intervened and stood up for him he may have never attended university let alone get a doctorate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uğur_Şahin
Sounds like the system worked in that case? As in it adjusted to new information that it was missing. This is not the case in the US.
Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears
#275The elephant in the room is that college doesn't teach you anything you need to know at a job. I'm not talking about the obvious exceptions like medicine or law (though even that can be done as a conversion rather than an undergrad degree) or anything else where you literally need the paper that says you can do it. I'm also not talking about becoming a researcher, where obvious you need to know a bit of X to become a…
60-70% of the adult population does not have a college degree. There is a huge potential pool of cheap, untapped labor right there. so why aren't more companies biting?
Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears
#276The elephant in the room is that college doesn't teach you anything you need to know at a job. I'm not talking about the obvious exceptions like medicine or law (though even that can be done as a conversion rather than an undergrad degree) or anything else where you literally need the paper that says you can do it. I'm also not talking about becoming a researcher, where obvious you need to know a bit of X to become a…
“A college degree will get you a good job” is the most incorrect meme that baby boomers ever came up with. Education, skills, and talent are all three entirely different things.
Being educated does not get you a job. Being educated is step one.
You also need to have:
* a workplace that exists
* the soft skills required to interact in that workplace
* and ability to apply your education
Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears
#277In Germany you study for free. There was a video (perhaps even from kurzgesagt) which describes how critical it is for our society to allow as many people as easy access to knowledge as possible and not only for obvious reasons but also to increase the chance for all of us that the hidden genius is finding a cure for cancer. You can even study for free in Germany as an non German. You know what happens? Those people…
What do you think about German kids being sent to different kinds of highschools at age 10. Most of the people attending Hauptschule don't attend university [0]. In some regions 60% of the children attend it. Aren't you concerned that the person who could discover the cure for cancer is in Hauptschule right now? Imagine a Germany in which the rest of your life isn't determined at age ten. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.o…
Germany has three “tiers” of secondary education, of which only finishing the highest will qualify you for university admission. The rationale is that not everybody benefits from learning latin or higher mathematics, when instead a focus on more trade-related skills might benefit you much more in your further career.
For late-bloomers, which might suffer under this system, it is still possible to progress from Hauptschule to Realschule and finally Gymnasium and university, without significant financial means necessary (besides cost of living).
Also, the average attendance for Hauptschule is [1]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulsystem_in_Deutschland#Sch...
Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears
#278The elephant in the room is that college doesn't teach you anything you need to know at a job. I'm not talking about the obvious exceptions like medicine or law (though even that can be done as a conversion rather than an undergrad degree) or anything else where you literally need the paper that says you can do it. I'm also not talking about becoming a researcher, where obvious you need to know a bit of X to become a…
I worked during the day and went to school at night. Honestly most people I know didn't do 100% school, they had a job while in uni.
I agree the current debt-based solution is bad. But there is more to life than efficiency and numbers.
Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears
#279I'm concerned that the majority of "should we fix college or should we circumvent college" conversations don't bring up one of the scariest parts of our current economy: STEM jobs are the main viable path for economic stability and freedom. All of the conversations I've seen implicitly assume that this is good, and that the solution to farmer workers (or other low paid workers) escaping poverty is to train them as so…
Sam's tweet is about college grads being too expensive. Which surprises me that he donated 250k to Joe Biden rather then Bernie Sanders.
Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
> STEM jobs are the main viable path for economic stability and freedom. People repeat that but what is it based on? Most of the population, including most people who have economic stability and freedom, have not had STEM jobs and very likely will not have STEM jobs. More importantly, college is about much more than job training. College prepares people to be adults in every way, not to be a resource for corporations…
> College prepares people to be adults in every way, not to be a resource for corporations. Only 2% of Bangladeshis go to college. Are the rest not adults? Indeed, I’d say the opposite is true. Apart from job training, the main function of college in America seems to be extending adolescence and deferring dealing with the real world. 18 year olds in Bangladesh are a lot more “adult” than many college-educated 30-some…
college is delaying young people to become mature, we're producing giant babies these days, thanks to endless parenting, online gaming, social screen time, now probably even metaverse, you name it.
on the STEM subject, teens good at math are never teacher's favorites, instead they're called nerds and some are even isolated from the rest, it's quite the opposite in Asia, or even in Europe. That's the root cause we need import so many STEMs from overseas, the culture smothered STEM from K-12. K-12 is anything but success IMHO.
middle school kids are more keen about their gender or identities, or how awful US was in the past, or their hair color...high school students must show how caring they're to the community or everyone must be some leader somehow while the truth is that they can barely take care of themselves without parents' caring, for academics nowadays SAT/ACT/school-ranking/etc are either racism or unfair...I will stop here.
A road to hell.