Stripe Crypto • Hacker News Board

Re: Stripe Crypto

#271

Post by wmf » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #166

It is important to recognize that Stripe is largely selling well-made shovels for the gold rush here. They have a history of diving more deeply into this market [1] and withdrawing from it before [2], so this is just Take 2. This time around, they are not themselves buying Cube Thingies or similar and don't have any exposure to the volatile world of ETH or other coins. I think there will be decent transfer of money f…

Stripe is largely selling well-made shovels for the gold rush here. ... This time around, they ... don't have any exposure to the volatile world of ETH or other coins.

Which is... even more evil? They're encouraging an externality which harms normal people but not them.

Re: Stripe Crypto

#272

Post by OGWhales » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:07 PM UTC

atlantas wrote: post #270

fivre wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a solved problem: you pay them for their work, which is how artists have made money since time immemorial. The degree to which artists can make a living off their art is a function of demand and discoverability, not whether they have a payment system (they do need this, but they already have them). I'd be curious to know what fraction of NFT enthusiasts had previously commissioned a piece of art, and of those…

In the current system when an artist creates something and sells it, they typically get paid once, often lowballed. The buyer may turn around and sell it for 100x. The buyer made far more than the artist, who gets nothing in this scenario. With NFTs the artist can get a cut of every transfer indefinitely.

> With NFTs they can get a cut of every transfer indefinitely

How does that work?

Also, what is to stop people copying it anyway and what is to stop artist from getting underpaid?

All serious questions that I'd like to see answers to but don't understand how NFTs would solve any of them.

Re: Stripe Crypto

#273

Post by cuteboy19 » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:08 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #244

fmvab wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

‘A pyramid scheme is a fraudulent system of making money based on recruiting an ever-increasing number of "investors." The initial promoters recruit investors, who in turn recruit more investors, and so on. The scheme is called a "pyramid" because at each level, the number of investors increases. The small group of initial promotors at the top require a large base of later investors to support the scheme by providing…

That's a bad definition. The key characteristic of a pyramid scheme is that each person gets paid by the people they recruit. If there is a global FIFO, that's a Ponzi scheme. A pump and dump is something else entirely. It doesn't depend on an infinite series of investors, just one wave.

The general term should be "greater fools schemes". Ponzi and Pyramid are just subtypes of this. There is also MLM and PnD which have their own characteristics. All of these involve finding more and more people to invest so that early investors can exit.

The reason why every greater fools scheme fails is that there is no net revenue (or too small to sustain the scheme). No matter the scheme, you will always run out of greater fools, and so it must collapse eventually.

Re: Stripe Crypto

#274

Post by rufusroflpunch » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

TomGullen wrote: post #203

ATsch wrote: post #99

I'm sure this will go very differently from the last cryptocurrency bubble, where a whole bunch of merchants started accepting them, just to realize half a year later that beneath the hype, nobody was really interested in using these so-called currencies as an actual currency and quietly shelved it.

Used to be a big Bitcoin advocate, we accepted it on our website but removed it due to it just not being worth it for the odd sale with the extra accounting required. Bitcoins original goal was to be an online currency, this has not transpired nor do I think it ever will which is why I (unfortunately!) got out. Talking to random people on the street the main feeling I'm getting now is as some sort of gold analogue, w…

I think you're not correct, your timescale is just too short. Monetization happens in three phases, roughly.

First, it is the store-of-value phase. Anticipation of future value, based on past and present value, will cause people to hoard a good as a savings technique. Bitcoin is still in this phase. Usually when you say this on the internet, someone will come in and say "Oh, but Bitcoin's volatility makes it a poor store-of-value!" But again, it's short-sighted. Looking at the 200 WMA will easily demonstrate the store-of-value aspect of Bitcoin.

Second phase is "medium of exchange". This is the thing people always point to and say that Bitcoin has failed. But it hasn't failed, it just hasn't reached it yet. This phase is started when a good becomes valuable enough that merchants begin to demand or incentivize payments in the good. As you mentioned, there are accounting, tax and technological impediments currently that make it less convenient to accept Bitcoin payments. These will be overcome with time, however, as the impediments are eliminated, or the value of Bitcoin makes it economically worthwhile to transact anyway.

The final phase will be "unit of account". Once a Bitcoin circular economy starts, people will begin to think of prices in Bitcoin, instead of dollars, euros, etc.

This may sound far-fetched to skeptics, but I consider this to be a near guarantee to happen eventually. Bitcoin's network effects and unique balance of incentives more or less ensures that it can't be killed, that everyone is better off participating in the network or they will be worse off in the long run.

Re: Stripe Crypto

#275

Post by Hjfrf » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:10 PM UTC

Nathanael_M wrote: post #252

This is unrelated to the specific story, but as more and more companies and people I respect get involved with it, the more I realize I need to have a working knowledge of Crypto Currency so at the very least I can be involved in the discussion. Does anyone have any good resources for learning the building blocks/vocabulary of Crypto Currency?

Reddit.com/r/buttcoin

Re: Stripe Crypto

#276

Post by StewardMcOy » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:13 PM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #266

root_axis wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hardly a rounding error, but I'm sympathetic to the fact that there are a lot more important concerns with respect to climate change than PoW, however, there is still a valid ecological critique of PoW due to it's inherent wastefulness relative to every other technology. The amount of waste necessary to support the network must always grow since any new efficiencies are immediately obviated by the incentive to b…

There’s a full featured testnet for the merge (Ethereum PoS) you can run right now. Yes, the developers were too optimistic with timeframes before, but it’s close and I’d expect it by EOY.

I'm following the progress. I don't like estimating release dates for other peoples' work, but I wouldn't be surprised if your EOY estimate is correct.

The biggest concern I have though, is that you can run as many testsnets as you want, but that doesn't mean the rollout is going to survive contact with the enemy. I'm very pessimistic that PoS can replace PoW in real-world usage. Once everyone is on the PoS ETH, I suspect that problems will eventually manifest, and either ETH will be forced to roll back to PoW, or there will be splits, and one of the PoW chains that splits off will supplant ETH in popularity.

I don't think this will happen immediately, but I think it's very likely to happen within a few years of ETH switching over to PoS.

Re: Stripe Crypto

#277

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:14 PM UTC

OGWhales wrote: post #272

atlantas wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the current system when an artist creates something and sells it, they typically get paid once, often lowballed. The buyer may turn around and sell it for 100x. The buyer made far more than the artist, who gets nothing in this scenario. With NFTs the artist can get a cut of every transfer indefinitely.

> With NFTs they can get a cut of every transfer indefinitely How does that work? Also, what is to stop people copying it anyway and what is to stop artist from getting underpaid? All serious questions that I'd like to see answers to but don't understand how NFTs would solve any of them.

[deleted]

Re: Stripe Crypto

#278

Post by atlantas » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:14 PM UTC

orangepanda wrote: post #126

They forgot to update their terms of service. > Prohibited Businesses > You must not use Stripe’s services for the following activities: > * Pyramid schemes > * ‘Get rich quick’ schemes > * No value added services > * Predatory investment opportunities

Serious question: Do you think pyramid schemes, get rich quick schemes, no value added services and predatory investments are new?

Re: Stripe Crypto

#279

Post by wahnfrieden » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:15 PM UTC

goosedragons wrote: post #228

wahnfrieden wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My interest in web3 + art is from finding new livable income sources for artists generally. Less about big money speculation, more about getting more artists supported such that they don’t need a day job or purely commercial art pursuits (as opposed to “fine art”). I understand the current state of crypto isn’t near offering this outside of hyped speculative investments I’m also not interested in ideas on a shelf tha…

I think Patreon and similar is probably a better avenue for digital. More consistent support than selling peices as NFTs or in meat space and with digital I think you're more likely to find 100 people willing to spend $10 for a new wallpaper each month than 1 willing to spend $1000 on an NFT.

NFTs don’t need to be as expensive as that, that’s only because currently all attention is on high-priced eth ecosystem

Patreon is also a huge rent seeker, we can do better for artist direct payment

Patreon is not passive income - people expect regular updates and special work/insight for private audience

In terms of consistency, meat space has big issues with accessibility and reach

Lastly you can look at the results. Patreon is not that widely transformative for giving artists livable income

Re: Stripe Crypto

#280

Post by rosndo » Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 8:15 PM UTC

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #250

rosndo wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the “planet-killing scam” is very HN-sphere thinking. Most people have no idea. Most non-technical artists I interact with seem very excited about NFTs, often asking me to help them create their own (unfortunately I’m not interested). And what about when ETH2 goes live in some months and the main NFT chain moves to proof-of-stake? The “planet-killing” problem is already solved, that tech is going live this ye…

> I think the “planet-killing scam” is very HN-sphere thinking It's not, at all. I've heard that phrasing or similar (that it's a pyramid scheme, that cryptocurrencies are wasteful) from people who don't even know how to find HN. In the photography world in particular, mentioning your NFT is likely to get you laughed out of any forum in which you bring it up. IMO if you encounter any non-technical artist "excited" ab…

>IMO if you encounter any non-technical artist "excited" about NFTs, tell them to stay the hell away, or risk being seen a bad friend.

Fuck that, despite me being incredibly skeptical of NFTs I’m perfectly willing to acknowledge the fact that some of my non-technical artist friends have earned 6-7 figure amounts selling NFTs.