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Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

reuters.com

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Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#271

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

kcb wrote: post #151
librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Most big tech companies are public. Record earnings and stock prices throughout the pandemic prove more than just not crashing and burning.

I hate to be the "correlation is not necessarily causation" guy, but come on!

Most of the big tech companies could have laid off 90% of their workers over the past 2 years and would have had even higher record earnings (and maybe stock prices).

What the big tech companies are concerned about is their continued ability to be productive and stay on top, and the fact that everyone had to move a ton of spending to online over the lockdowns doesn't mean that record profits during that time are sustainable.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#272

Post by zip1234 »

alecbz wrote: post #176
kcb wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Most big tech companies are public. Record earnings and stock prices throughout the pandemic prove more than just not crashing and burning.

A) I think there's a lot of confounders here (like the global pandemic and such) that make it to difficult to infer anything from correlations B) Engineering work is pretty inherently long-term in its impact I think, especially at big public companies. Most such companies I think have "revenue engines" that'll continue to operate on their for a bit even without much engineering input C) I suspect the negative aspects…

Many people end up doing remote work in person anyways at sufficiently large companies where in order to get things done they have to get on video call or phone.

The best solution I've found so far is to provide both as options, do meetings in a remote friendly way, and then have in person meetings for everyone a few times a year.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#273

Post by bob1029 »

ejb999 wrote: post #111

I have been fully remote my entire career (several decades), in fact in 30+ years have never been on site anywhere for more than 2 weeks total. Wouldn't have it any other way. But as a counter-point, seeing a whole bunch of people who were never remote before, how little work they are actually doing, it is no surprise to me that a lot of employers are going to start forcing - to the extent possible - employees back i…

> Remote work isn't for everyone, and unfortunately there is a non-trivial percentage of the workforce

In my experience, a majority of the workforce requires some degree of regular supervision or things will go off the rails quickly. Hell, I am full-time remote (pre-covid) and I don't think I should be left alone on something for more than 2 weeks.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#274

Post by erosenbe0 »

colordrops wrote: post #83
floren wrote: post #71

A few months back I was talking to a manager at [huge established software company]. He was making the case that obviously anyone who has moved away from the Bay Area should have their pay cut. He personally has not been in the office for a single day since spring 2020, but since he telecommutes from Berkeley rather than Omaha, he sees no reason to cut his own pay. Later that same day I spoke to someone who's managin…

Despite not making any sense, cost of living adjustments based on your location seem to be the trend that we are heading toward. If you contribute the same work, it seems that it shouldn't matter where you are located, but companies are sociopathic by nature and will reduce costs anywhere they can get away with it. This opens the door to the next step of having salaries match the lowest common denominator - if you ca…

Why should companies subsidize landlords in Bay Area? The Bay Area has manipulated zoning and land use for a century for profiteering as well as race exclusion.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#275

Post by jonathankoren »

I don’t think any of this has to due with productivity, collaboration, or whatever corporate says.

Google (and Apple, and Facebook, and no doubt many others) have spent literally billions of dollars on real estate right before the pandemic. If people don’t fill those buildings, they’re going to look foolish.

That’s it.

It reminds me of when corporate says they need special employee shuttles instead of lowering costs by a shared shuttle. “We encourage collaborative conversations on the shuttles.” I’ve ridden them. No one speaks. It’s also not due to secrecy, otherwise they wouldn’t want employees to work on public transit.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#276

Post by tick_tock_tick »

civilized wrote: post #126
librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

Do you literally want to be tapped on the shoulder? Because this seems to be an extremely common figure of speech, but literally, I would not enjoy that.

I mean people normally wave in your line of sight then actually touch you but yes.... It's a super quick way to resolve an issue and get everyone back on track. Especially as I've gotten more and more senior over my career and a lot of your work output is making sure the rest of the team can function effectively.

Only when I was really junior did heads down code all day happen.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#277

Post by darrylb42 »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #259
librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

Note: just an typical enterprise dev take, not in the Bay Area/part of the FAAMNG environment A big part of the equation (for some) will be what kind of office they are being asked to return to? At the office my company used to have before it was acquired in 2019 everyone had a cube, not big by any means and not with full walls, but enough space to have a few pics of family, maybe a plant, personal nick-nacks, whatev…

Our office is 100% hoteling now no fixed seats. No personal stuff unless you want to carry it in everyday you go in. Been a few months since I went in.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#278

Post by opportune »

paxys wrote: post #27
jefb wrote: post #5

Mandates? "Since last June, Google has approved nearly 14,000 employees globally to transfer to a new location or go fully remote, Casey said. About 15% of applications have been denied, he added." "Employees not prepared to return April 4 also can seek a remote-work extension, Google said."

A mandate which allows temporary exceptions is still a mandate.

Those aren’t temporary exceptions. Fully remote in this context means you don’t have an assigned desk in any Google office and thus aren’t subject to any mandate about returning to offices when a particular office opens back up

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#279

Post by jupp0r »

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

>I personally prefer a company where everyone's on site.

Not everybody at Google is in one location to begin with.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#280

Post by skybrian »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #262
skybrian wrote: post #201

I've worked at a startup where everyone being there was essential in how we worked. (We were all pair programming.) It was great. It beats code reviews any day. I learned a lot. But when I was at Google, we would schedule VC meetings with people in a different part of campus just to avoid the walk. Also, I worked on teams that had people worked out in many offices, mostly not Mountain View. I was surrounded by Google…

> I think Google having a company-wide policy on this is nuts. Teams vary a lot. They should probably be left to make their own decisions. This seems rational until you are actually responsible for managing a large organization. First off, the article itself states that Google is giving a lot of flexibility ("Employees not prepared to return April 4 also can seek a remote-work extension, Google said. Since last June,…

Yes, there is a great deal of flexibility and patience. I worked from home a couple days a week.

In the old days, they drew the line at going full-remote. When the Atlanta office closed, everyone there had to either move somewhere else or, eventually, leave. I guess that's changed.

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