Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system • Hacker News Board

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#271

Post by tsol » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:16 AM UTC

belval wrote: post #66

wincy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay so curious, I have a South Indian neighbor who is Muslim. I assume Muslims are just a different thing outside of the caste system, despite people saying caste is not rooted in Hinduism? (I’m not saying it is, just curious how an Indian might view their Muslim neighbors).

Seems to exist for Indian muslims as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian...

Anecdotally I believe it occurs in a much lower amount, I haven't seen it at all as an Indian Muslim. Still I don't deny that it happens, especially in areas with less education. By creed it doesn't make sense-- as a popular hadith says "no Arab is better than a non Arab and no white is better than a black, except by piety and good deeds". Of course this hasn't stopped the ignorant in the past(unfortunately)

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#272

Post by droopyEyelids » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:16 AM UTC

jeffy90 wrote: post #130

zxienin wrote: post #67

I am from “upper caste”. My experience might not be commonly heard perspective. In 10th grade of schooling, my parents changed my lastname to avoid that folks figure out the caste. Due to affirmative action (aka reservation) on steroids, upper caste were losing opportunities. My parents wanted to avoid that I lose out on selection, promotions.., where subjective discretion was involved. I do not recall ever seeing ca…

These posts consistently make it to the front page of HN. I'm not denying that casteism exists, but since the subject draws so much attention, reporters must feel incentivized to write about it.

It reminds me of the situation where a student returns from college and tells their parents that something is racist.

The parents feel like their child has been taken over by some weird agenda to make such a big deal out of normal stuff!

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#273

Post by tsol » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:18 AM UTC

gunfighthacksaw wrote: post #108

danans wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to historical endogamy of Indian castes, there are very often phenotypes that are associated with relative position in the caste hierarchy. This is highly regional, and far from exact, but leads to examples like the GP gave. These patterns are often used by people as a shorthand for categorizing another's relative caste and often as the basis for discrimination. At a very broad generalization, upper caste individ…

We stamped this kind of thinking out of Europe in the 40s. Shame it wasn’t all over the world, but… scope creep

Have you been paying attention to the discourse around the current Ukrainian refugee crisis? It's alive and well in Europe

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#274

Post by steveBK123 » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:19 AM UTC

I think it serves as a good reminder that racism is a thing most all races do to other races or subgroups of their own race.

In tech these days there's enough racial groups that you are as likely (or more, in my experience) to end up with blatantly racist behavior from minority groups who either only hire their own or explicitly do not hire specific minorities they dislike.

I remember working at a bank where the portfolio trading team was all racial group X, algo team racial group Y, and OMS racial group Z.. because the managers were...

The white guys were like the generic neutral glue that could sometimes be hired into the X/Y/Z group teams.

My previous fund I recall a friend telling me he started looking for a new job as soon as our new boss started as he was grilling him in their native language trying to figure out which specific racial/caste/regional sub-group he was from..

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#275

Post by zozbot234 » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:22 AM UTC

simmanian wrote: post #25

zozbot234 wrote: post #14

It's so disappointing to see in the article that caste discrimination is still being blamed by some on the religion of Hinduism. There's no dharmic status whatsoever for "caste" in the commonplace sense. The Vedas occasionally talk about something that gets misinterpreted as caste, but it's very clear from the texts that they're talking about individual callings and aptitudes, and not any sort of immutable status. Th…

I think it's fair to say that the caste system is greatly influenced by the flavor of reincarnation in hinduism and vice versa. the buddha himself set out to seek enlightenment and free himself from suffering when he saw that so many people from the lower castes are suffering. it eventually led him to reject hinduism and teach that nobody suffers in this life because of something that happened in "past" lives (in fac…

Reincarnation does not involve the ordinary notion of "individuals'" personal identity in Hinduism properly understood, only a generalized awareness called 'Atman', which is indistinguishable from the universal awareness called Brahman. The belief in personal identity is decried in Hinduism as one of many attachments that lead directly to suffering and the cycle of Samsara. Buddhism has a very similar understanding, except that they go as far as to pragmatically even discourage any belief in Atman because it's believed that this will not be useful, but will only cause attachment and suffering. "Universal" awareness and liberation from suffering is instead sought mainly as a direct experience via stream entry, which is only one of many avenues in Hinduism and not privileged over others.

There are plenty of folk superstitions in both Hinduism and Buddhism, so it's not impossible that some folks may have believed what you wrote above at some point. But the actual agreed-upon views are pretty clear.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#276

Post by beerandt » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:22 AM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #166

beerandt wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This kind of language Same can be said for current usage of "privilege" and "equity".

In some contexts, yes, but there was nothing in the OP's use of "privilege" that attempted to silence any further discussion.

But it is used to silence, just differently. Per OP: Noticing privilege is proof of privilege existing in society. Not noticing privilege is proof of privilege and proof of the observer's oblivious-ness.

If all answers are supposedly proof of your claim, that's just another way to silence dissent by invalidating opposing claims and viewpoints.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#277

Post by jart » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:23 AM UTC

One thing I've always wondered is how much if any awareness expats have of western last names. For instance, not to imply names matter, but the most famous person who shares my last name was a boxer. Great man, but he wasn't famous for being an Isaac Newton. So I'd hope no one would look at my name and think, oh she must be the kind of person who's really good at using her body rather than her brain. My experience with American culture is we only really focus on the positive aspects of names. Like if you're having a conversation with a Vanderbilt or a Rothschild it's hard to not notice that, but there's really not much awareness in terms of negative associations with names, since everyone deserves a shot, and since everyone's looking for their shot, it's the folks with prolific names who'd be more likely to conceal them.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#278

Post by gunfighthacksaw » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:26 AM UTC

tsol wrote: post #273

gunfighthacksaw wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We stamped this kind of thinking out of Europe in the 40s. Shame it wasn’t all over the world, but… scope creep

Have you been paying attention to the discourse around the current Ukrainian refugee crisis? It's alive and well in Europe

Putin is not invoking genetic or phenotypic arguments to my knowledge.

He wants a cultural genocide, not a biological one.

If every Ukrainian tomorrow declared themselves Russian, Putin would be ecstatic. Compare a Dalit declaring himself Brahmin.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#279

Post by tsol » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:27 AM UTC

simmanian wrote: post #25

zozbot234 wrote: post #14

It's so disappointing to see in the article that caste discrimination is still being blamed by some on the religion of Hinduism. There's no dharmic status whatsoever for "caste" in the commonplace sense. The Vedas occasionally talk about something that gets misinterpreted as caste, but it's very clear from the texts that they're talking about individual callings and aptitudes, and not any sort of immutable status. Th…

I think it's fair to say that the caste system is greatly influenced by the flavor of reincarnation in hinduism and vice versa. the buddha himself set out to seek enlightenment and free himself from suffering when he saw that so many people from the lower castes are suffering. it eventually led him to reject hinduism and teach that nobody suffers in this life because of something that happened in "past" lives (in fac…

You'd be surprised by the diversity in Buddhism. Once I got a book on Buddhism and was reading it in front of my Indian Muslim parents. They gave me a strange look and asked me if I was going to convert. I laughed and explained, as a western educated person does, that Buddhism is more like a philosophy than a religion and that they don't actually pray to the Buddha. My mom laughed and said the Buddhists in her village would pray to the Buddha every day and give sacraments to the statue. This is when I realized that everyday folk religion is very different from what you find in books and summaries. No one goes around telling Buddhists in obscure small villages that they're not supposed to pray to the Buddha. If anything, the idea that the Buddha isn't a god like figure comes more from a western understanding of Buddhism that tries to summarize the global collection of practices into a single ethos

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#280

Post by reactspa » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:29 AM UTC

A lot of upper caste indians will tell you there's no caste system any more.

I'm an upper caste indian and here's my experience looking for an apartment to rent in Chennai, India, in around the year 2000. I was repeatedly asked by potential-landlords if I was a brahmin (I'm not), and told they couldn't rent to me if I wasn't. It was my first trip to Chennai (I'm from the north), and I am pretty sure it's illegal to openly ask a potential tenant if they're a brahmin. But there was simply nothing I could do about it.