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A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

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Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#271
post #26

I often wonder how money is stored. It can't be just a number on a computer in a bank, right? Otherwise some Russian bank could just increase that number to whatever they like. And say "Look, we own 100 Trillion USD. Now let's go shopping.". So I guess USD needs to be recognized by the US somehow? Could the US simply "void" all USD that are owned by Russia?

> I often wonder how money is stored. It can't be just a number on a computer in a bank, right? Otherwise some Russian bank could just increase that number to whatever they like. And say "Look, we own 100 Trillion USD. A bank could easily create fake money into its own accounts, but it would have trouble transferring that money over to other banks. I wrote extensively about this topic here: https://www.attejuvonen.fi…

> A bank could easily create fake money into its own accounts, but it would have trouble transferring that money over to other banks.

In fact, isn't that indistinguishable (mathematically) from paying interest? The bank's internal accounts all go from X to Y. In theory, the bank should made more money that that in total, so at any given point the sum of all accounts is less than the banks money and accounts recieveable (usually via loans). And the bank can provide that money to other people if needed. But if a bank paid 1000% APR on savings accounts, all that would happen is the bank goes belly up and a lot of those accounts won't be worth the numbers they claim to have.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#273
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is they do not care for Ukraine. I've been thinking about this all day and feel incredibly upset when I see what's going on. What can we do? Have you seen what the Russians did to Grozny? It all boils down to the fact that EU simply can't start a war with a maniac that has thousands of nukes. I'd say let him have it and Ukrainians refugees are welcome here by the millions. Putin's now threatening Finlan…

> Putin's now threatening Finland and Sweden should they dare join NATO do you have a link i can read up on? I would imagine everyone is running to the safety of NATO now and i can totally see Putin saying "if you try then you're next". > ...then it's basically WW3. If that's what it takes to get rid of this maniac then so be it but the consequences for everyone will be severe. "severe" would be the mildest term poss…

https://mobile.twitter.com/g_mastropavlos/status/14972378568...

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to watch people who have never really thought about this before realize the entire banking system is built upon a handful of centralized, permissioned databases which can pretty much be turned on/off at will for certain parties by the central banks. What is even more amazing is watching these same people (no necessarily you OP, but prevailing opinion on HN...) then go on an argue that a permission-less d…

Honestly curious. What is the dissonance that you see there? Digital fiat currency is indeed bank databases. Similarly, stock markets and stock ownership are also stored in permissioned databases. Both are highly regulated and enforced by law. For people in countries with a high level of rule-of-law, and a stable financial system, I’d argue that this works reasonably well. I also think that blockchain and other crypt…

> For people in countries with a high level of rule-of-law, and a stable financial system, I’d argue that this works reasonably well.

I agree, but that's not always obvious at first glance. For example, I would've said Canada qualifies as a stable rule-of-law country with strong property rights up until a couple weeks ago.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#275

CEO and co-founder of Routefusion here, a cross-border bank to bank payment API. We use the SWIFT network regularly. I can 100% confirm that all money in the world is just literally numbers, and it is balanced by the different federal reserve systems around the world to ensure no one can "create" money without notifying everyone. I guess if I was super cool I would do an AMA because this is the only thread that is re…

Well, since you semi-offered... :)

Could you explain this to me like I am a complete moron? I understand that SWIFT allows for international payments, but I don't understand exactly how it differs from a normal bank account transfer within the same country.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#276
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was watching a mainstream news report (I'll try to find it and edit my comment) where the host and the guest were talking about the impact of economic sanctions. They said it's not intended to stop Russia, but to inflict pain on the citizens, so that they citizens will turn against leadership. In that moment, it really clicked for me how much normal people are pawns to be used in much larger games. And there appare…

Well, a) they are literally the only ones who can do anything about Putin's regime, and b) they are paying taxes, no? Those taxes pay for the Russian military. Destroying a country's economy is just about the only way to stop a modern nation's military. Oh, and c) are there any other knobs to adjust Russian foreign policy?

a) I am unconvinced that they have any more direct power over their leadership than any other country's citizens do. Is this naive? b) We all know that taxes are involuntary. You make it sound like the Russian people are complicit in this attack. c) There isn't always a knob to turn when someone does something that you don't like. A bully can sometimes take someone's lunch. There doesn't seem to be unified international response, so this is what happens. The best I've heard is "let's hurt their citizens and see if it helps."

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#277

CEO and co-founder of Routefusion here, a cross-border bank to bank payment API. We use the SWIFT network regularly. I can 100% confirm that all money in the world is just literally numbers, and it is balanced by the different federal reserve systems around the world to ensure no one can "create" money without notifying everyone. I guess if I was super cool I would do an AMA because this is the only thread that is re…

>I can 100% confirm that all money in the world is just literally numbers, and it is balanced by the different federal reserve systems around the world to ensure no one can "create" money without notifying everyone.

How does the system guarantee that nobody's creating money without notifying everyone? Furthermore, does the system guarantee that the central banks of each country are correctly adjusting their books in consequence? Is it all just a trust-based system, or are there additional controls?

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to watch people who have never really thought about this before realize the entire banking system is built upon a handful of centralized, permissioned databases which can pretty much be turned on/off at will for certain parties by the central banks. What is even more amazing is watching these same people (no necessarily you OP, but prevailing opinion on HN...) then go on an argue that a permission-less d…

>What is even more amazing is watching these same people (no necessarily you OP, but prevailing opinion on HN...) then go on an argue that a permission-less distributed ledger like Bitcoin is a completely unnecessary waste of resources. Hating the way modern banking works doesn't mean blockchain is a flawless solution. It comes with a ton of its own problems (not the least of which being that it's utterly inscrutable…

Sure, I'd agree commodity money is preferable (and certainly trustless in p2p transactions), and in many ways better than blockchain. I just don't see how to map that paradigm onto a world where people who have never met each other regularly transact across continents without introducing some trusted 3rd party. And the moment you add that 3rd party you end up right back where we are now.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to watch people who have never really thought about this before realize the entire banking system is built upon a handful of centralized, permissioned databases which can pretty much be turned on/off at will for certain parties by the central banks. What is even more amazing is watching these same people (no necessarily you OP, but prevailing opinion on HN...) then go on an argue that a permission-less d…

> permission-less distributed ledger like Bitcoin is a completely unnecessary waste of resources. it certainly is when it immediately de facto centralizes! which is in the event what has happened

I'm not sure how you can say it is de facto centralized. You may have had a decent argument as recently as last summer when most of the mining was done in China. However, we just watched them ban mining there completely, and the network carried on relatively unfazed. Seems pretty distributed to me.

Re: A quick breakdown of what SWIFT is and why it matters

#280
post #164

I would make a comment about cryptocurrency being relevant to replace this system, but I know it will just be buried and ignored.

Umm - crypto would prevent any sort of sanctions ? How is that a good thing ?

For a Russian Citizen that would probably be a good thing.
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