I work with tradesmen daily.
They put up with the same, as well as job-specific BS, just like we do.
It’s a pipe dream to think it’s some career utopia. Unless you want a change of flavor in the BS you put up with, for a while.
Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?
271–280 of 470 posts
Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, yes, owning things is definitely the best job, regardless of what industry you're in. It's not the typical path for any job, though.
I know, but I think for most people in this thread, there is an upward path for that. I often wonder why the other painters working for him don't go off and start their own painting companies. Perhaps a few will. But I suspect many of them would not enjoy or be comfortable with spread sheets, business taxes, work insurance and some of the other things that go along with owning the company. I suspect my neighbor, like…
> I often wonder why the other painters working for him don't go off and start their own painting companies
I've got a very good friend who worked as a painter, did the 8-3 5 days a week gig for probably 8 years or so. He had no interest in running a business, managing clients, dealing with costing, estimates, etc. He just wanted to show up, paint and leave at 3.
> and some of the other things that go along with owning the company.
One of the big differences is what happens if there's no work, or if someone stiffs you or if the work required is substantially more than the estimate? In all three of those cases a business owner is in trouble, but the painter doesn't care.
Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?
#273This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…
Yeah but even if it seems more comfortable to sit at a desk, it's much worse for your health, and also will make you feel worse already at the end of the day, so as a desk worker you're basically required to spend another hour after work every day exercising to make up for that. While the people doing the landscaping already got their exercise and fresh air.
Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?
#274I don’t think the OP is insane. Sure, the trades are physically demanding and in a lot of cases will pay less than a software developers’ salary. But one thing the responses are missing is that simply because you can’t physically see the damage done doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Bad back and shaky hands from years of hard labour? Sure.
How about years of stress and gaslighting? Is chronic depression and learned helplessness any less bad?
“Don’t worry buddy, you’re getting paid enough to hate yourself and not see the point in living anymore. Just keep at the grind and enjoy your comfy chair and latte.”
If you’re starting to feel that way I would look into starting therapy first before making big life decisions like that. You might find the root cause of your discomfort and treat the cause rather than run away from it. And if it is the right move for you you will go in with eyes wide open.
Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
The comedic term is "punching up" [0]. It's generally more acceptable to make jokes about the (presumably) wealthy owners of BMWs and Audis, versus "punching down" by making fun of people who comparatively face more disadvantages. [0] Urban Dictionary: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Punch%20Up
If we use the punching metaphor, in either case one is committing an act of "violence", which I think most people would acede is negative at least in the large scheme of things.
Violence has different definitions, according to the Oxford English Dictionary [0].
One is: "1. a. The deliberate exercise of physical force against a person, property, etc.; physically violent behaviour or treatment; (Law) the unlawful exercise of physical force, intimidation by the exhibition of such force." Another definition is: "4. Vehemence or intensity of emotion, behaviour, or language; extreme fervour; passion."
That the first definition is inherently negative is a separate philosophical discussion (as quick counter-examples where violence may not be negative, consider the violence of a fencing or martial arts match). However, it is clear that "punching up" in this case refers to definition four. I believe that most would agree that intensity of emotion or language is not inherently or necessarily a negative behaviour.
[0] Current quoted version is paywalled, but older 1989 edition for reference (may have differences from the quoted version): https://www.oed.com/oed2/00277885
Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?
#276This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…
There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…
Through attrition and universities pumping out CS degrees as fast as they can since the early 90's, at any given point almost half of us have less than 5 years of experience. When half the people don't know any better, it's really hard to use democracy to get anything 'good' done. Either this hasn't changed much over that interval or the people who are fond of pointing this out aren't tracking statistics. Whether it's actually true or only somewhat true, I think we deal with the consequences all the time.
What I can say is have more hobbies, and perhaps we (those who care) should be working to differentiate a genre (vertical, size, location, something) as being better, so it feels like less of a game of chance every time people are looking for 'better'.
Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?
#277Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?
#278Every time I call a plumber it's a least 600 USD. I have learned to do many things myself such as rebuild the innards of toilets, repair broken drain pipes, install sinks and new drain lines, but some things are too much for me (don't have the time, tools or knowledge).
I just had an old 2 inch steel drain pipe descaled ($600) because it was causing the washing machine to backup and overflow. I had had it power cleaned/jetted before (several times) but that did not work. The rust corrosion had constricted the pipe to about 1.25 inches. Descaling seems to have really opened it up.
I used to hate drywall. It would get wet and need replacing after plumbing problems, but I recently came to realize that as messy and time consuming as drywall is to replace, it's a good thing because it allows you to spot water leaks early and absorbs a lot of water. A more water resistant surface would hide the problem and only allow it to grow much bigger before someone noticed it. If you have enough space, drop ceilings are the best thing since sliced bread.
Also, when you are not using your washing machine, turn the water off at the wall. That will prevent a washer water line bursting (while everyone is at work) and ruining an entire room/floor of the house. And when you buy replacement water hoses for your sinks and washing machine, buy the best you can afford and replace them every 3 to 5 years. You'll save yourself a lot of money and trouble by doing this.
If you ever own a house, you'll learn to fear and respect water (and chipmunks) more than anything else.
Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's a manifestation of the inherent feeling that many of us developers are doing something mostly useless compared to others. We know that the world could be different and we could be working jobs that are physically and/or mentally difficult but also fair and useful. Ursula K. Le Guin puts it thus, from her novel "This Dispossessed": "A child free from the guilt of ownership and the burden of economic compe…
A similar idea was expressed by Marx, who referred to it as estranged labour . Forgive the lengthy quote: > the object which labor produces – labor's product – confronts it as something alien, as a power independent of the producer. The product of labor is labor which has been embodied in an object, which has become material: it is the objectification of labor. Labor’s realization is its objectification. Under these…
Very ironic that the USSR ended up forcing most people into state-chosen jobs. I think it's nice to think of some ideal future where everyone works on what they want to work on but society needs people to do the dirty work that nobody wants to do. Janitor, garbageman, sewer maintenance, warehouse worker, etc. A lot of Marx's ideas are just ideas, not anything that could ever be realized in the real world.
Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?
#280The grass is always greener on the other side unless, of course, you’re a member of the idle rich