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Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

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Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but I think parent was joking

Half-joking, but yeah. "Managing the board of directors" of course means keeping the board happy, which is done by what ansible wrote. Not just directly trying to talk them out of firing the CEO.

Of course. Jokes aren't funny if they aren't at least a little bit true!

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#272
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fawning over Steve Jobs (and I don't mean apple coolaid folk) is always bizarre, and I think really drove a lot of the "super star ceo" nonsense these days. I'm not saying he didn't save apple or whatever, I'm just unconvinced that being that particular model of arrogance was necessary part of said "saving". Obviously we can't roll back time and replace him with an identical clone with the only difference being t…

You mean you shouldn’t admire a CEO who took a company from near bankruptcy in 1997 to the most valuable company in the US in 2011?

I said fawning.

Business people, startup people, VC funders, etc all idolize a specific image of Jobs, which mostly appears to focus on how he dressed, and how he was an asshole to people.

We will never know if being an asshole was needed to get Apple to where he got it, I'm inclined to think it isn't.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What weather would make your bicycle unrideable? I can only think of heavy snow if you don't have fat tires, or maybe sun and 40+ degrees celcius.

PNW black ice. I’ve lost count of the number of times that I ended up on the ground with torn tights and a bleeding elbow, wondering what the hell just happened. Now if it is between 30F-39F, I’ll just skip that ride.

> black ice

This. Pre-covid I cycled to work each day, and at 5am (!) black ice was frequently a nightmare on cycle paths that had smoother tarmac than the road.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#274
post #262
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN crowd is always quick to point out that Peloton has no moat - its just a screen on a bike. Creating a lifestyle brand (ala in person fitness brands like Soulcycle or Barrys) is a way to address that moat, and apparel is a core part of that. Whether or not they were successful is an execution issue.

How would having a lifestyle brand create a moat? How would you define "moat"? (Genuine questions, I have no position on the issue and no real knowledge in the area)

Branding is a bit of a moat that puts you ahead of other competitors. Literal true story but perhaps a counter example: my wife is considering buying an exercise bike and is trying to choose between Peloton and Beachbody. Everyone online seems to be suggesting she buy the Peloton. She is a little torn, because she already has done non-bike exercises on Beachbody for several years. Peloton has the leg up for the bike, because it has the best branding in that area; however, my wife was at least willing to consider Beachbody, because of her previous experience with their brand.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#275

Peloton does have a lot going for it. From everyone I've heard, their physical products are well made (with the exception of the treadmill issue..). They have extremely low churn which is hard to do in fitness. The main problem is that they grew too fast. All the pandemic sales were probably just pulled forward from future sales, not a sign of sustainable growth. They overcommitted and now need to trim back again.

Agreed, apart from the fact that their treadmill kills kids, their products are exemplary.

The treadmill incidents were absolutely terrible but without knowing Peloton's internal design process I don't want to assign blame. Any physical product with powerful motors and moving parts is inherently dangerous, and the best we can do as hardware engineers is to follow the standards as best we can and do a thorough hazard analysis and try to mitigate as much as possible.

Now, if it turns out Peloton did NOT do those things, then they absolutely deserve more blame for the accidents with their treadmills. I know they didn't have a shield behind the belt, but my treadmill doesn't have that either so I am not sure what the standard is without paying for it.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#276
post #262
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN crowd is always quick to point out that Peloton has no moat - its just a screen on a bike. Creating a lifestyle brand (ala in person fitness brands like Soulcycle or Barrys) is a way to address that moat, and apparel is a core part of that. Whether or not they were successful is an execution issue.

How would having a lifestyle brand create a moat? How would you define "moat"? (Genuine questions, I have no position on the issue and no real knowledge in the area)

I use moat here in the sense that it creates some level of defense against competitors. Nike's shoes obviously contain a lot of advanced technology in it, but the strength of their brand what shields them against a newcomers and generics selling similar items.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#277

Peloton does have a lot going for it. From everyone I've heard, their physical products are well made (with the exception of the treadmill issue..). They have extremely low churn which is hard to do in fitness. The main problem is that they grew too fast. All the pandemic sales were probably just pulled forward from future sales, not a sign of sustainable growth. They overcommitted and now need to trim back again.

Agreed, apart from the fact that their treadmill kills kids, their products are exemplary.

I think it was one kid. Mike Tyson's daughter was killed by a treadmill many years ago. I was kind of surprised that based on the CPSC's numbers, treadmills kill 8.5 people a year on avg.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#278
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN crowd is always quick to point out that Peloton has no moat - its just a screen on a bike. Creating a lifestyle brand (ala in person fitness brands like Soulcycle or Barrys) is a way to address that moat, and apparel is a core part of that. Whether or not they were successful is an execution issue.

IIUC, the classes/instructors are the moat.

Instructors definitely are, but I think they recognize that it would be very easy to poach an instructor to jumpstart a competitor.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's more or less what I was saying in a sense, though I'm a little surprised that anyone would prefer that experience to running outside, supposing it wasn't mid-winter. I personally would prefer to spend the money on snowboarding or something, or living somewhere without winter, or somewhere more interesting to run, but I'm sure there are circumstances that you favour living in that place for.

It sounds like you're fortunate enough to live in an area with good outdoor air quality. There are many places where aerobic exercise without a good HEPA filter in the room with you is almost certainly a net negative for health and longevity. Also, as others have suggested, Peloton is really a social network... or at least they should think of themselves that way, if they want to make money. Arguably they shouldn't b…

Certainly, if I lived somewhere with shit air quality, I'd prefer something indoor. But then if I was in the market for a peloton, I'd probably have enough money (which I don't and am not in either case) to live somewhere worthwhile instead of struggling to breath as soon as I step outside. At least, that's where I'd be trying to allocate my money. Idk why someone would want to be a part of a social network to interact with other people who are sitting in one place and who bought the same product. Seems like the friendship would be pretty shallow.

Re: Peloton – A call for action [pdf]

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a personally derived anecdote, just an observation. I just don't see people who aren't sufficiently motivated enough to go for a real bike or workout at a gym changing their mind because they consoomed a new $$ one. I do know some people who do, but they basically have no choice in the matter but to do something in winter. It's like buying an iPad pro and expecting yourself to find an interest in illustratio…

People are motivated by the most diverse stuff you can imagine. Sometimes people watch a movie that makes them cry and they decide to learn guitar just like the girl with cancer in movie. Or they decided to buy a really expensive bike and now this is a big motivator for them to ride everyday. Or sometimes people live in a cold place, they are shy and have feelings of inadequacy and won't feel good in a gym where they…

Yes, in some circumstances I absolutely agree, there's a lot of reasons someone wouldn't be motivated to do something, but my opinion is that the overwhelming factor is that they don't find it fun enough to try and overcome those things. Sure, someone might feel uncomfortable at a gym, but often that's a matter of finding one that suits you, getting used to it, or finding it remotely fun for some reason. If you find running satisfying enough, the likelihood that there will be an insurmountable obstacle to doing that is usually low. Buying $400 shoes won't make you love running.

For me, I hate the cold more than I like snowboarding, and I don't really have the money to invest in equipment. If I loved snowboarding enough having had a very good experience initially, perhaps through one of those variables that you mentioned being tweaked, then I'd find a way to do it by sourcing used gear or w/e, but ultimately I just don't like it enough atm to do that. Therefore I'm very much in favor of tweaking anything to explore a new activity, but I'm doubtful that more than a tiny percentage of people stick with it for more than a month because they really wanted to play cancer-girl's song. It wasn't an innate drive to pursue an art, it was an external momentary source of novelty, akin to setting a New Years resolution.

Likewise with ice-skating or something. If you feel genuinely driven to do that, but you don't like skating indoors at the local rink, you'll try and do it regardless of your equipment, and try to find an outdoor rink, or maybe a frozen lake, or pond, or you'll be sad if you can't because you live somewhere too warm with a culture that doesn't support it, or you'll vacation to somewhere colder. I always recommend not trying to find something fun that you don't find fun, but instead just exploring many options horizontally to eventually find something you do find fun. Great, you don't like the gym, try climbing, try hiking, try swimming, try running, whatever. Then think about spending $$ as you see fit to support the thing you're actually compelled to do.

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