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TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

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Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#271

Post by wutbrodo »

long_time_gone wrote: post #80
wutbrodo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> Trump it mobilized the 99% of people who don't have beliefs as much as they have I thought it was the judicial branch and an injunction that stopped it. >> On 23 September 2020, TikTok filed a request for a preliminary injunction to prevent the app from being banned by the Trump administration. This request was filed with the District Court for the District of Columbia. The preliminary injunction was approved by Ju…

Yes, I was being glib, thanks for calling it out.

As the wiki article you shared lays out, there was a decent amount of nonpartisan momentum behind narrower limitations on Tiktok, along with serious consideration of it as a national security threat. Trump's threat of an outright ban immediately polarized the conversation and deflated much of that momentum, helped along by the fact his specific approach and messaging were typically incautious instead of incremental.

The courts did indeed issue an injunction against Trump's EO, and I don't have any reason to believe they were wrong to do so. Biden, again typically, _has_ taken the first steps of an incremental approach towards assessing the risks that tiktok poses. But as implied by the Wikipedia page you linked, we're nowhere near the level of Congressional and institutional attention that we were at in 2019 and 2020, and it's pretty reasonable to attribute this to Trump's engagement with the issue reorienting the political valence of the conversation. Specifically, the "Trump vs tiktok" association is so strong that (eg) a Senator that makes too much noise about it will now be loaded with an association that he may not want.

I actually don't have a strong opinion about tiktok's ban, see risks in both courses of action, and am a fan of the Biden admin's ostensible careful approach. I just resent the degree to which the idiocy of the public drives so many issues further away from thoughtful engagement with reality and towards partisan sportsball.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#272

Post by acconrad »

friedman23 wrote: post #234
bduerst wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the whole, "TikTok spies for China" meme also politically motivated, per the last Republican president? I don't doubt that Bytedance shares Chinese TouTiao user data with the Chinese government, akin to how Apple does it with iCloud, but Bytedance has been pretty adamant that TikTok is external to China and doesn't share data. Even when there was an executive order to ban TikTok for being a national security th…

Explicit evidence of Tiktok sharing information with the Chinese government is not needed because there is already sufficient evidence that 1. The Chinese government does not deserve our trust. 2. All Chinese businesses are extensions of the Chinese government. The default assumption should be that your information is being sent to China and that China is using Tiktok as an extention of their propaganda arm.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#273

Post by Graffur »

asdff wrote: post #229
Graffur wrote: post #186

Even if it didn't share data.. it's designed from the beginning to be addictive. While other platforms like Facebook and Instagram grew into being platforms with aims to be addictive, I believe they started in a more neutral place. This type of app should be treated like smoking imo. Queue the "you can find educational material on tiktok!" posts by the subset of HN who really love the app and the company.

It's too jarring to me with the constant playing of the next thing. It's just content content content with no free time in between for you to be alone with your own thoughts. You could spend three hours on the app and have no time for a single independent thought of your own at all. At least three hours in front of cable TV would mean you'd do some introspection when you got up to pee during the commercials.

Yeah, and I have done exactly that. I am vocal about not liking the app but it can still suck me in. I have spent hours lying in bed just scrolling..

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#274

Post by [deleted] »

selfportrait wrote: post #155
robbedpeter wrote: post #5

It's not unclear at all. It's Chinese data harvesting software. They'll do token public appeasement to avoid negative pressure, but every feature in the app is designed to collect biometrics and behavioral data. China is not a good faith operator. Given the data needed to influence public opinion and voting, they will engage in manipulation favorable to their interests. That alone is sufficient to run tiktok at a los…

I don’t refute anything you say, but linking to a page that features Glenn Beck, Mark Levin and Tucker Carlson doesn’t help your case. Not to mention the clear partisanship and call for donation to the “American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology” - a rabbit hole I’m happy to avoid.

[deleted]

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#275

Post by uoaei »

snehk wrote: post #65
lpcvoid wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the site does not have access to biometrics. What point are you making?

Neither does TikTok if you don't upload anything.

Techniques for recovering certain biometric data from accelerometers, microphones, etc. is well-established.

Obviously the behavioral profiles are unaffected by this, considering it focuses primarily on browsing habits.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#276

Post by hammock »

saas_sam wrote: post #41
netcan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> China is not a good faith operator. Who is? I don't mean to be trite or contrary, but TikTok is coming into an environment where norms are pretty damned shady. Google as you and the article say, also consume user data quite unethically. FB likewise surveil us for their advertising businesses. They both also happen to host and control a good chunk of political and politically adjacent content within that framework.…

Every tech company executive in the USA is not required to operate as an agent for one political party by threat of being disappeared. Our entire internet is not locked down to prevent political dissidents from sharing their views. Our government doesn't pay to flood our social media networks with astroturfing to create the illusion of popular support for its policies. These things add a more serious tone to the conv…

Give it a few years.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#277

Post by hammock »

Osmium wrote: post #246
sidlls wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in my mid-40s: there's nothing deep or mysterious to "get" about TikTok. It's short-form video snips/vignettes, mainly of people showing off for their friends, trying to cash in on short-lived audio trends and meme pipelines, and sometimes both. It reminds me of the kind of bravado/showing off my peers in middle- and high-school did: because that's essentially what it is. Edit for more context: I happen to be dat…

> I'm in my mid-40s: there's nothing deep or mysterious to "get" about TikTok. It's short-form video snips/vignettes, mainly of people showing off for their friends, trying to cash in on short-lived audio trends and meme pipelines, and sometimes both. What this misses is that TikTok is a radically different experience for different people. For some people, this description is very accurate. For other people, they wou…

>For other people, they would barely recognize TikTok on the basis of this description.

Not following. Who are the "other people" and how would they describe it otherwise?

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#278

Post by friedman23 »

acconrad wrote: post #272
friedman23 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explicit evidence of Tiktok sharing information with the Chinese government is not needed because there is already sufficient evidence that 1. The Chinese government does not deserve our trust. 2. All Chinese businesses are extensions of the Chinese government. The default assumption should be that your information is being sent to China and that China is using Tiktok as an extention of their propaganda arm.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor

Like I said in another comment, I'll allow HN readers to use their own judgement.

edit: but you know what. Since you want evidence I'll give you some. The entire Alibaba debacle where the CEO was forced into hiding because he dared to contradict the Chinese political elite is my evidence that the Chinese government has implicit control over every business based out of China.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#279

Post by beepbooptheory »

friedman23 wrote: post #234
bduerst wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the whole, "TikTok spies for China" meme also politically motivated, per the last Republican president? I don't doubt that Bytedance shares Chinese TouTiao user data with the Chinese government, akin to how Apple does it with iCloud, but Bytedance has been pretty adamant that TikTok is external to China and doesn't share data. Even when there was an executive order to ban TikTok for being a national security th…

Explicit evidence of Tiktok sharing information with the Chinese government is not needed because there is already sufficient evidence that 1. The Chinese government does not deserve our trust. 2. All Chinese businesses are extensions of the Chinese government. The default assumption should be that your information is being sent to China and that China is using Tiktok as an extention of their propaganda arm.

People are talking about the other parts pretty well, but the idea of a "propaganda arm" seems a little funny to me. What is the propaganda they want to push? To what end?

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#280

Post by borepop »

acconrad wrote: post #272
friedman23 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explicit evidence of Tiktok sharing information with the Chinese government is not needed because there is already sufficient evidence that 1. The Chinese government does not deserve our trust. 2. All Chinese businesses are extensions of the Chinese government. The default assumption should be that your information is being sent to China and that China is using Tiktok as an extention of their propaganda arm.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor

Nothing that Christopher Hitchens ever said struck me as remotely insightful. Characterizing one of his reductive proclamations as a "razor" does not make it more useful or accurate.
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