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Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

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Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#271
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you do not have evidence that X works, or the evidence is ambiguous, your conclusion is the null hypothesis (that X doesn't work) No??? This is what having a prior is for. In this case, the prior was the mechanistic model which told you with reasonable confidence that masks would work in the slices of worlds where the primary mode of transmission was one mitigated by mask-wearing. We do not in fact live in a sta…

> No??? This is what having a prior is for. In this case, the prior was the mechanistic model which told you with reasonable confidence that masks would work in the slices of worlds where the primary mode of transmission was one mitigated by mask-wearing. Yes. I'm incorporating a prior. Read what I wrote at the top of the thread: every medical intervention that has ever failed a trial has had a biologically plausible…

> my prior probability of any medical intervention working is almost zero

Yes, this is reasonable, in the general case, absent a specific example to examine. However, masks do in fact work to prevent the spread of certain kinds of disease, based on both obvious mechanistic reasoning and on actual experimental evidence to that effect. Making the affirmative claim that masks would not work against covid (at the time) would have been ignoring or denying the non-trivial possibility that they would work quite well (or work poorly, but working poorly is still working on the margin).

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, but you didn't just miss nuance, you inserted novel events.

I did not.

Given this piece of text:

>> I get the point he's making. But still, if he didn't like the lack of nuance why not find somewhere to work other than Microsoft?

Can you quote the specific portions of text that explicitly communicates these specific ideas:

- {something} is the only consideration in the universe

- {something} is the worst thing in the world

- Microsoft is intolerable

- that these problems are a uniquely MS problem

- Microsoft sucks

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#273
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t solve a lack of executive function/decision making capacity (which is what we’re referring to) by making more work/queuing up bullshit work. It will result in everyone just ignoring anything that smells like coming from such a system. Since (almost) no one wants to admit they don’t have enough decision making capacity or can’t prioritize using it for whatever you’re asking (at least now a days it seems, sin…

Sometimes the other party will happily oblige with your request, but only after a totally vacuous phone call that serves absolutely no purpose other than (i) signalling how much effort the other party is spending on you (ii) punishing you with synchronous communication so as to limit your potential request rate.

Wonderful! On reflection a bit on these, I also wonder if it’s a type of demand for payment from the other party too - a ‘give me an ego boost/social capital payment, and I’ll pay attention to your request’ type thing. A bribe with your time and discomfort maybe?

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#274
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t solve a lack of executive function/decision making capacity (which is what we’re referring to) by making more work/queuing up bullshit work. It will result in everyone just ignoring anything that smells like coming from such a system. Since (almost) no one wants to admit they don’t have enough decision making capacity or can’t prioritize using it for whatever you’re asking (at least now a days it seems, sin…

I'd read every comment on the page, but when I got down to your bullet points, don't know why but my eyes glazed over and I stopped reading anything, and just started scrolling quickly down the page. Then I realized the irony of this happening in a thread about ignoring bullet points!

Haha, amen.

Near as I can tell, we’ve all been deluding ourselves about our own human natures too. Nearly everyone is exhausted and on the edge of burnout.

It causes predictable behaviors in everyone. Trying harder to make it not true just makes the inevitable reckoning worse.

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not.

Given this piece of text: >> I get the point he's making. But still, if he didn't like the lack of nuance why not find somewhere to work other than Microsoft? Can you quote the specific portions of text that explicitly communicates these specific ideas: - {something} is the only consideration in the universe - {something} is the worst thing in the world - Microsoft is intolerable - that these problems are a uniquely…

yes

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given this piece of text: >> I get the point he's making. But still, if he didn't like the lack of nuance why not find somewhere to work other than Microsoft? Can you quote the specific portions of text that explicitly communicates these specific ideas: - {something} is the only consideration in the universe - {something} is the worst thing in the world - Microsoft is intolerable - that these problems are a uniquely…

yes

Can you do it (and will you do it, physically, in fact) in response to this comment?

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#277
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also there is a certain lack of training in clear thinking with words and ideas that are not emphasized in STEM curriculum but are emphasized in the humanities. I took a fair amount of history and literature in college, and while they lack the clarifying reality of equations and axiom systems, the practitioners of such fields are quite good at dissecting statements and pulling out the subtleties of human language bas…

It was several years after I left university before I gained a real appreciation for a course that was made mandatory at the time: History of Science. At the time I was forced to take the course, it felt pointless to me, but after reading Thomas Kuhn’s book (SoSR) several years later, I can look back and connect the dots. Learning about the history of science was meant to punctuate a widely held myth, that our civili…

I never took history of science, but read and enjoyed many many essays about the simple description of scientific discoveries, notably by Asimov F&SF essays and Stephen Jay Gould on deep time and geology and so on. Even the development of the gas law and the basics of atomic theory in chemistry is so fascinating.

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also there is a certain lack of training in clear thinking with words and ideas that are not emphasized in STEM curriculum but are emphasized in the humanities. I took a fair amount of history and literature in college, and while they lack the clarifying reality of equations and axiom systems, the practitioners of such fields are quite good at dissecting statements and pulling out the subtleties of human language bas…

> Also there is a certain lack of training in clear thinking with words and ideas that are not emphasized in STEM curriculum but are emphasized in the humanities. I took a fair amount of history and literature in college.... Or the most potent disciplines: epistemology and logic. I believe epistemology and logic when combined with decomposition (something programmers usually have excellent capabilities in) make it fa…

The whole depending on a proposition for your salary, yeah. And clear and precise arguing can certainly be put into service for obfuscating relatively simple truths. But the skill is useful.

Re: Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale

#279
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I missing something? "there's no reason for the general public to be walking around with a mask". Nothing in that statement says that masks don't work. It also doesn't say there will never be a reason for the general public to walk around wearing masks. It is in the present tense and a single sentence. In a shortage, you want the masks focused where the infections are coming in, the hospitals. The virus was not wi…

> Nothing in that statement says that masks don't work. The implication seems pretty clear. We don't live in a world where statements only mean their narrowest and most literal reading. pseudalopex linked to Fauci's tweet plainly stating that masks are ineffective for the general public.

To set the record straight: I was mistaken, that tweet was from Jerome Adams, not Fauci.

* https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-n95-fa...

* https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/29/health/face-masks-coronav...

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