Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm' • Hacker News Board

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#271

Post by maxerickson » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

jamps wrote: post #256

maxerickson wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccinated people suffer much less from a course of infection than unvaccinated, in all age groups. Not necessarily 'long covid' stuff, just the basic injury that comes from the illness. I sure don't want to lose my sense of smell. Even in young children, the consequences of infection appear to be worse statistically than the consequences of vaccination. It's of course not all that well understood yet, but for exampl…

My point here was death. The fact that there is no life threatening disease for 0-45yo on a statistical level in Europe. Death for this age group is lower than it was in 2017. > Vaccinated people suffer much less from a course of infection than unvaccinated, in all age groups. I don't know how you can measure that. And that's not how these vaccines have been sold. They were supposed to have 95% efficacy at lowering r…

Yeah, it's a mistake to only consider deaths.

And it's a mistake to evaluate the vaccines in terms of what was said about them over time versus the impact they currently have. They currently confer lots of protection to people that have received them.

Like the fact that the officials and manufacturers failed to properly communicate that it's a dynamic, changing situation doesn't actually undermine the very real value that the vaccines still provide.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#272

Post by JPKab » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

rfrey wrote: post #85

Many (I suspect most but I only follow a few) epidemiologists are saying there's no stopping Omicron. It's more contagious than measles - if you're in a room with somebody who has it, you're exposed barring a properly fitted N95 mask. All of us will be exposed by mid February. It's also many times less pathogenic than Delta, and it's a gift that nothing at present can outcompete it. I believe it's the version that wi…

I'm going to challenge you on a specific point:

If it required a Herculean effort to prevent the health care system collapsing, why didn't Sweden's healthcare system collapse? Why didn't Florida's health care system collapse? There's this certainty that these policies that were more restrictive were absolutely necessary, but nobody wants to acknowledge that locations on the planet that did not have strict policies seem to have done just as well over two years. I welcome you to look at the Swedish data and compare it to the rest of the EU or the United States. Sweden did very well compared to other nations with large global cities. It did not do great compared to Finland, but that's like comparing Colorado to Nebraska. They are neighboring but nothing alike.

I was very pro mask in the beginning until I realized that it was quickly turning into a cultish religion with no regard for actual efficacy. People didn't care that you were wearing a bandana on your mouth that was absolutely not effective, they just wanted you to signal to them that you agreed with their beliefs. My kids being forced to wear masks while playing sports outside on a field was utterly absurd and I have deep resentment towards public health authorities and the cultists who allowed their fear to hijack their brains and their common sense.

Your statement shows a confidence in your own prior beliefs with a muted acceptance of the new reality with omicron. But you just assume that countries that did not have policies as strict as yours had health care system collapses and the data shows they did not.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#273

Post by csee » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

ryanbrunner wrote: post #139

csee wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they also would've had better mask compliance and vaccination rates, less obesity, and as a country they're more sparse.

A large part of the mask compliance IMO was due to having consistent mandates and messaging around masking, so it's tied into the overall approach to restrictions. Canada being sparse is a bit misleading. While yes, it's a very large country with relatively few people, 90+% of people live within 150 km of the US border, and the population density in major population centres (Toronto / Vancouver / Montreal) is compara…

There is also a great deal of randomness.

I'd hestitate to draw conclusions by comparing countries, there is not enough data.

If we could compare different local areas that had different policies, we might be able to get somewhere. Even then, it's not easy. The locales who are happy to lockdown are probably also composed of people happy to wear a mask and happy to vaccinate. There is also an ugly reverse causality thing going on where lockdowns are a response to growing community spread, which makes it look like they don't work when maybe they actually do.

It's not an easy question to answer empirically. I'm happy to do the finger in the air approach of assuming they work based on common sense. That doesn't mean that they should be implemented, which is a related but different question.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#274

Post by AnthonBerg » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

jseban wrote: post #257

DFHippie wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ICUs are full. Millions have died. Millions more have long covid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

Enough with this fear mongering bullshit please, what are you trying to achieve, is it fun to spread panic? Show a proper statistically significant excess mortality, or stop talking about people dying.

Three statements of fact were presented.

It is another fact that excess mortality has been shown, clearly and repeatedly.

It is also a fact that there is a theory in psychology that anger stems from fear.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#275

Post by guelo » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

rfrey wrote: post #85

Many (I suspect most but I only follow a few) epidemiologists are saying there's no stopping Omicron. It's more contagious than measles - if you're in a room with somebody who has it, you're exposed barring a properly fitted N95 mask. All of us will be exposed by mid February. It's also many times less pathogenic than Delta, and it's a gift that nothing at present can outcompete it. I believe it's the version that wi…

> All of us will be exposed by mid February

This is misinformation.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#276

Post by jseban » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #215

rfrey wrote: post #85

Many (I suspect most but I only follow a few) epidemiologists are saying there's no stopping Omicron. It's more contagious than measles - if you're in a room with somebody who has it, you're exposed barring a properly fitted N95 mask. All of us will be exposed by mid February. It's also many times less pathogenic than Delta, and it's a gift that nothing at present can outcompete it. I believe it's the version that wi…

I think about just the common cold/flu - I also don't want to get that. If I knew that was ravaging through communities at higher than normal rates, i would take precautions because I just would prefer to not get sick!

Be my guest, but don't force all of society to be your hypochondria buddies.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#277

Post by celticninja » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

jseban wrote: post #252

dtjb wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because many people they knew didn't wash safely back on the shores.

Is 1% "many"?

1 percent of the world population is 78 million people, that is many, even if you try to make it seem small by using percent. Each of those people were a member of a family, a mother, brother, father, son or similar to someone.

But by your reckoning it's not many, and given Hitler killed 6 million Jews, which is a lot less than 78 million, he didn't kill that many either.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#278

Post by outside1234 » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

This is the right approach - take reasonable measures (masks indoors, public transport) - but start working back to normal.

The unvaccinated at risk have had their chance to get vaccinated. If they get sick and end up in the hospital it will only be their fault.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#279

Post by outside1234 » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 3:39 PM UTC

Mizza wrote: post #26

akmarinov wrote: post #7

At this point, you’re either vaccinated, have been sick or are dead, so all good. With Omicron beating out Delta and not causing as many hospitalizations - sure, why not.

Am I fucking crazy for not knowing what's going on any more? US hospitalizations are at an all time high, 2000 people are still dying every day, and it feels like everybody is just okay with that now. What happened? I get that everybody is tired of it, I am too, but it feels like we wasted two years of everybody's life just the take the bullet anyway.

We didn’t waste two years - we developed a vaccine which the intelligent in the population have taken.

Some haven’t and are paying the consequences.

Re: Ireland drops most Covid restrictions in wake of 'Omicron storm'

#280

Post by AnthonBerg » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 3:39 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #173

acdha wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's also many times less pathogenic than Delta This is a misleading way to say your risk of hospitalization is about half of what it was with Delta. Vaccination is making it safer to get closer back to normal — which is why Ireland can consider it with their much higher rate of over 92% versus the U.S. 63% — but we still need to be thinking about masks and improved ventilation when it’s spreading, especially since…

Why on earth would you vaccinate kids? It’s not going to do anything to the spread of the virus, as the grand parent post mentioned it is extremely infectious and neither masks or the vaccines have been shown to make anything else than a dent in the levels of infections. They aren’t at risk of the virus either. The energy would be better spent convincing the few >60yo who haven’t been vaccinated to get the shot. But…

> Why […] would you vaccinate kids?

For the stated and proven reasons, the commonly known basis of vaccination: 1: It is much, much, much more dangerous to get COVID than the vaccine. 2: The immune response from vaccination is much more protective and much more consistent than the immune response from infection, especially with this disease.

This is known.

Also, established scientific knowledge lies counter to the statements you have as premise.