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Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

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Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#271

Post by optimalsolver »

kube-system wrote: post #170
optimalsolver wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is relying on a foreign company helping the situation?

Samsung is probably more accurately described as a multinational company in this context. The location of a company's headquarters is not a primary determining factor for all different types of geopolitical risk. Like other multinationals, they have some ability to pick the jurisdictions they operate, and each of those locations have their own geopolitical contexts. However, in this case, South Korea is also a close…

>However, in this case, South Korea is also a close US ally

So is Taiwan.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#272

Post by kube-system »

optimalsolver wrote: post #271
kube-system wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung is probably more accurately described as a multinational company in this context. The location of a company's headquarters is not a primary determining factor for all different types of geopolitical risk. Like other multinationals, they have some ability to pick the jurisdictions they operate, and each of those locations have their own geopolitical contexts. However, in this case, South Korea is also a close…

>However, in this case, South Korea is also a close US ally So is Taiwan.

Correct. Which is the reason why having TSMC in Arizona would also help. https://tsmccareers.com/tsmc-arizona/

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#273

Post by wonderwonder »

shmatt wrote: post #243
nodicksplease wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

care to share any sources? or did you just make this up?

Yes, they made it up According to wikipedia/some google-fu SV has just above double the high tech jobs as Austin

According to wikipedia/some google-fu Silicon Valley has a population of ~ 3 million people while Austin has a population of just under a million. Your numbers support my comment that you say I "Just made up"

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#274

Post by m0zg »

0_____0 wrote: post #93
josaka wrote: post #69

After the TX grid failure last winter, it's probably not a coincidence that Samsung's new facility will be near ERCOT's operation center in Taylor, which manages the TX grid, and will likely be the last load to shed when the grid's stressed. Used to work in the Austin fab, and the amount of money lost per minute in a power failure is mind boggling. The tax breaks Taylor offered ($314m) are not that different from wha…

tangentially related bit of trivium... when i was house hunting a looked at a house across from a fire station, and upon doing research about what it's like to live across from one, found that a.) they tend not to blast sirens upon exiting the station, in contrast to living near a hospital with an ED, and b.) the power grid segments that fire stations are on have priority and are less likely to lose power during blac…

> the power grid segments that fire stations are on have priority and are less likely to lose power during blackouts

So do large grocery stores, for obvious reasons.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#275

Post by m0zg »

ecf wrote: post #59
JavaBatman wrote: post #11

I am still amazed by the shortsightedness of how these critical and strategic goods are off-shore. No wonder why the supply chains are fragile and not robust. It should be illegal for strategic goods and components such as chips and semiconductors to be produced offshore. Yes, it will raise prices in the short and medium-term, but it will make the domestic economy and manufacturing sector more robust, resilient to su…

The blame for this is purely on the shoulders of business leaders coming out of MBA programs across the US. It seems the only thing those places are teaching is how to join a company, strip it to the bone, hype up the short-term 5% growth, and get millions of dollars in raises.

MBA programs do not produce "business leaders", except by accident. They produce business _administrators_, which is a different thing entirely, and often the opposite that of a leader. People often confuse management with leadership, and while a manager can be a leader, the two are rarely the same.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#276

Post by luis8 »

dnautics wrote: post #117
guai888 wrote: post #18

‘Impossible':TSMC founder Morris Chang on US dreams for onshoring chip supply chain https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4327937 Morris Chang spent 25 years (1958–1983) at Texas Instruments.He knows US very well.

key phrase: > a full chip supply chain in the country (emphasis mine) TSMC is, after all, ALSO building a fab in the country, so it's not like TSMC doesn't believe in onshoring chips to the US. The fabs are {high capital expense/high recurring expense/high skilled labor} operations so the US is very competitive due to the labor value-add. Not every part of the full supply chain is like that. To serve (aka reduce risk…

This was mentioned in the last meeting held by Biden with the North America group. The Mexican president said that the imports from China should be reduced as much as possible in order to stop China becoming more powerful that it already is. Mexico at least in the mid/near future is a safe bet in terms of supply chain risk.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#277

Post by m0zg »

ksec wrote: post #183
justapassenger wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to take his words with a grain of salt. Without going into politics, it’s impossible to talk about TSMC without geopolitical context. It’s essential to TSMC survival for their production to physically stay focused in Asia.

Morris Chang has been exceptionally clear on this issues when he was still CEO of TSMC, even before the whole politics and TSMC becoming leading edge. It is impossible with respect to current cost structure, without substantial government money, while getting the same margin. Of course it is entirely possible to throw money at the problem and succeed. Which is what Intel is trying to do right now with the help of US…

> Morris Chang has been exceptionally clear

He can be "exceptionally clear" and still biased in favor of TMSC.

> It is impossible with respect to current cost structure

Well, we'll have to pay a few cents (or dollars) more per chip then. It is infeasible for us to continue to depend on TMSC in the long term - it will be taken over by our largest geopolitical adversary by 2030 at the latest. We do not have a choice but to either on-shore, or shift production to countries with far less geopolitical risk.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#278

Post by foobarian »

throw10920 wrote: post #244
JavaBatman wrote: post #11

I am still amazed by the shortsightedness of how these critical and strategic goods are off-shore. No wonder why the supply chains are fragile and not robust. It should be illegal for strategic goods and components such as chips and semiconductors to be produced offshore. Yes, it will raise prices in the short and medium-term, but it will make the domestic economy and manufacturing sector more robust, resilient to su…

> We need a true industrial policy and state capitalist system similar to what Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore have. You forgot China. If you institute strong controls over industry in a country the size (and culture) of America, you won't get Japan, you'll get China, and the corresponding anti-features of their system (such as authoritarianism in general, and companies acting as agents of the state in part…

There are some uncomfortable questions raised here. Why is it desirable to build "robust manufacturing systems?" Why was it desirable to overengineer appliances to last decades in the 50s, other than "the designers felt it was the proper way to do it" and there was no market pressure to steer them otherwise. How many resources were wasted on such appliances over those decades?

If the supply chains have very little slack and products are designed with minimal material inputs, sure there may be some availability hiccup here and there, but how bad is that really and by what metric. At the same time many more people get to have access to modern goods due to lower costs and less unneeded material, less is wasted due to inventory stockpiling, and we are overall more efficient.

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#279

Post by johnchristopher »

josaka wrote: post #69

After the TX grid failure last winter, it's probably not a coincidence that Samsung's new facility will be near ERCOT's operation center in Taylor, which manages the TX grid, and will likely be the last load to shed when the grid's stressed. Used to work in the Austin fab, and the amount of money lost per minute in a power failure is mind boggling. The tax breaks Taylor offered ($314m) are not that different from wha…

Isn't Samsung big enough to simply ask permissions to build their own nuclear reactor at that point ? Or wind turbine farms or whatever ?

Re: Samsung plans $17B chip plant in Taylor, Texas

#280

Post by borgel »

throwaway95118 wrote: post #253
wonderwonder wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are setting up fairly close to Tesla. Wonder if they are working on a deal for Tesla to provide battery backup. Interestingly enough Austin, TX appears to be rapidly approaching SF status as a tech hub and may soon surpass them. Its an interesting thing to watch and really gives insight into how politics and taxes affect business and growth.

I'm a big fan of Tesla and Mr. Musk - but does anyone know of any non-vaporware large scale industrial facilities that use Tesla battery walls as power backup? Do Tesla manufacturing plants do this?

Not sure about industrial, but they have grid scale battery storage with their Megapack product. Hornsdale in Australia has been operating for a few years. https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/tesla-fulfills-...
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