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The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

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Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#271

Post by yohannparis »

300bps wrote: post #183
nyamada wrote: post #18

My daughter here in France had a bike accident two months ago which requires 14 stitches in her foot. We received 3 follow-up visits from nurses to clean and redress her wounds -- We pay about 100€ a month for supplemental private insurance on top of the public health insurance here -- Total cost for us? about 40€. We would have had to pay about 100€ more for the nurses' visits, but the mutuelle covered it. These are…

I live in the US and my employer pays for my very excellent health insurance. For my family of 4 the most I will pay in any one year is $750. About 1/3 of people in the US have excellent healthcare and benefits. You don’t often hear from us.

And you get into an accident (fall in the bathtub/stairs) cannot work for few weeks, your boss fire you easily... Where you is excellent health insurance coming from now? COBRA? That will not be $750/year.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#272

Post by 300bps »

BowBun wrote: post #215
300bps wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the US and my employer pays for my very excellent health insurance. For my family of 4 the most I will pay in any one year is $750. About 1/3 of people in the US have excellent healthcare and benefits. You don’t often hear from us.

Even with 'excellent insurance' (which I think I have as well), you still deal with deductibles, non-covered procedures, inability to choose and shop for prescriptions, limited choice of providers, HSAs, massively inflated prices... the list goes on. To the point of another commenter, just having to reason and think about the costs of necessary healthcare in one of the wealthiest countries in the world is a complete…

If you’re dealing with an HSA that means you have a HDHP which I would not consider excellent insurance.

There really are a third of us out there with really great plans. I’m getting downvoted to oblivion but it doesn’t change facts.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#273

Post by maxerickson »

briHass wrote: post #209
hogFeast wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing that is particularly unusual about the US is that private insurance companies are probably not very efficient (admin costs are multiples of similar mixed healthcare systems). But if you look at healthcare spending as a % of GDP: the US has the largest public healthcare system in the world, and it has a private healthcare system that invests very heavily in people's health (I think people get confused a…

The US conducted the experiment to limit insurance companies' profits. A component of the ACA (Obamacare) was the 80/20 rule, where at least 80% of all premiums collected by health ins. companies had to be paid out for care. That was a failure. In the 10 years or so since that rule, premiums have increased dramatically. Your reply is well-stated. There isn't one single 'bad guy' in the US system; it's more a function…

Premiums haven't increased any faster post ACA (maybe a bit slower even).

https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/health-insurance-premiu...

We are already in the midst of a provider shortage.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#274

Post by DFHippie »

jmclnx wrote: post #148

Eliminate all political donations from non-humans. That is the biggest issue, thanks to Citizens United Ruling by Republican Supreme Court Appointees, people in the US votes have no power any more. As soon as someone gets elected the do not give a crap about the public. That is when money starts flowing to them in large amounts to push corporate agendas. Republicans are very good at this game, notice how they are abl…

> As soon as someone gets elected the do not give a crap about the public.

This goes too far. Believing it is impossible for politicians to do the right thing is a counsel of despair that harms those who are trying to do the right thing and gives advantage to those that aren't. If you believe it is impossible for democratic action to provide good governance, what is your alternative?

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#275

Post by 300bps »

yohannparis wrote: post #271
300bps wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the US and my employer pays for my very excellent health insurance. For my family of 4 the most I will pay in any one year is $750. About 1/3 of people in the US have excellent healthcare and benefits. You don’t often hear from us.

And you get into an accident (fall in the bathtub/stairs) cannot work for few weeks, your boss fire you easily... Where you is excellent health insurance coming from now? COBRA? That will not be $750/year.

This is completely wrong for many people. In the US we have something called FMLA and then I also have short term disability and long term disability.

I have seen coworkers with cancer or even their family members with cancer and they take six months off with pay and come back like nothing happened.

Be a valued employee at a large company. It’s a completely different situation in the US. It’s actually really good from my experience and as you can tell by my username I’m actually pretty old.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#276

Post by DFHippie »

jonplackett wrote: post #53

Why is the discussion in America always private VS nationalised healthcare instead of just making private healthcare value for money / less insane. Here in the UK we have the NHS which is great. But we ALSO have private insurance / hospitals / healthcare that is reasonably priced.

Those are the terms of the debate because it keeps people at each other's throats and prevents progress.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#277

Post by maxerickson »

ceejayoz wrote: post #6
otagekki wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hospital and the doctors. Almost $500 for a tetanus shot is simply not justifiable

The doctors likely have nothing to do with how much procedures bill for. In private practice outside a hospital, they perhaps have more guilt here, but in an ER? They set the prices about as much as the janitors do.

They consent to work in that environment.

Which hey, I'm glad they are there, but it also isn't "nothing to do with" it.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#278

Post by boplicity »

gus_massa wrote: post #241
boplicity wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really any healthcare procedure that is not typically covered by insurance has seen costs go down over time. Health "insurance" companies are incentivized to raise the cost of care. Why? Their profits are capped to a percentage of the cost of care. The only way for them to make more money is to have more revenue -- which they do by increasing the cost of care!

Bakeries are also incentivized to raise the cost of bread, in spite they have no official cape of the profit (unless you consider 100%?). The difference is that if a bakery tries to charge you a ridiculous price, you can politely decline tu buy, or buy and promise never to return.

Let say you go and pick up a loaf of bread from the store. You don't pay, however. Instead, you have the bakery send a bill to your "buyer." Your buyer then negotiates the price. One thing about your buyer: the more revenue that flows through them, the more money they get to make. The bakery tells the buyer that the cost for the loaf of bread is $500. However, the buyer wants to keep you happy, so they reject the price, and come back with a lower price: $350. The bakery rejects the $350 price, and eventually, the two parties agree that the price should be $400. (Note, that other bakeries, where you buy directly, charge $4 for a loaf of bread.)

The buyer gets to say they negotiated. The baker doesn't have to look you in the eye when they gouge you.

It gets a little more complicated,though. Instead of just paying $400 for the loaf of bread, the buyer bundles the cost of all the purchases together, and then charges a monthly fee, based on the previous year's overall revenue. They then tack on 20%. So, it turns out, with that extra 20% you're actually paying almost $500 for the loaf of bread anyways.

Is it a scam?

Yes, it's a scam.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#279

Post by ipaddr »

t0suj4 wrote: post #252
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's exactly how a free market does work. It's exactly what any rational person would expect from a corporate free-for-all designed for maximum extraction potential based on maximising political power differentials. Good state-owned care smooths out the inequalities, so farmers in the middle of rural area will at least have affordable access to basic care, and more advanced care will be within easy travelling d…

When the state or its delegates decide who can offer what service to whom it cannot be free market. What's preventing you from opening a clinic and stitching people for $300?

Laws that say I must have completed some state certification. That limits supply.

I don't understand why they can't limit price.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#280

Post by sorokod »

88840-8855 wrote: post #43
sorokod wrote: post #30

Can someone make a coherent case for public healthcare to be a for-profit endeavour?

Just my 2 cents. I live and work in Germany and am insured in one of the many public insurances. My monthly contribution is 350 Euro, my employer has to pay 350 Euro per month, too. Hence, I am paying approx. 7500 Euro for my insurance per year. Assuming I work 35 years plus some inflation, then I will pay over 300.000 Euro for my insurance. This excludes contribution before 25 (where my parents paid for me) and my c…

I am in Germany as well and naturally pay medical insurance. My question was not about cost.
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