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Without parental leave I might be dead

nytimes.com

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Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#271

Post by sangnoir »

conductr wrote: post #258
kingsloi wrote: post #217

I literally worked for most of my child's 8 month life, from her ICU room, I worked the morning of her 9 surgeries, I worked through the genetic diagnosis, I worked through being told my child has brain bleeds, neuroblastoma, is deaf, re-intubated, etc... if my insurance wasn't tied to my work, I would've quit in a heartbeat. I'm convinced I'll go to my grave with working that time being my biggest regret in life. I…

US? FMLA? Just curious if you felt you couldn't take it due to company culture or if it just didn't apply to you? Either way, a horrible experience for you I know. I’ve been fortunate to work with folks that are family friendly when things like this arise. I can’t even imagine opening my laptop while in the hospital and in that headspace.

FMLA leave is unpaid. Not many people can afford to go through 8 months without income, especially with a child in the NICU.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#272

Post by yokoprime »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #61
bko wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given that _every_ other "civilised" country has some sort of rudimentary care for new parents, which doesn't acutally cost that much, I can't see any reasonable objection to not having it. Giving a special benefit that will for the most part only be exercised by women discourages hiring women. You can still think its worth it, but don't pretend like you're baffled by anyone who would object or question how this im…

This graph shows the gender pay gap trending down in the UK since they implemented parental leave: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwor... This graph shows women's employment rate trending up in the UK: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwor...

So we're just throwing out random graphs and assuming causality? How about stork population vs birthrate?

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#273

Post by dragonwriter »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #264
celtain wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the ERA hasn't been ratified, right?

Yes? You also know that something as momentous as a constitutional amendment doesn't happen in a vacuum either, right? It still had the effect of nearly doubling the size of the workforce, and now ~50 years later we're now seeing what it means to have a dual-earner family income. The middle class is rapidly shrinking and the dream of owning a house for many newlyweds is fast receding in the rear view mirror, but hey,…

> It still had the effect of nearly doubling the size of the workforce

No, it didn't.

That ship had already sailed before ERA was proposed, and was a major driver for it.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#274

Post by still_grokking »

> barbaric reality

Form an European standpoint this describes almost everything about the US quite accurate.

The US is in dire need of a social benefits system worth its name. The current situation truly can't be described as anything other than "barbaric".

Sorry for the hard words but it's just the reality.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#275

Post by giantg2 »

999900000999 wrote: post #234
giantg2 wrote: post #64

While I agree that family leave is a good thing and needs some discussion about how to implement/fund it, I really dislike the title. It's a real stretch to claim that if she didn't have paid leave that she might be dead. The real root of the issue is that she should have been paying attention to her symptoms. One could even make the arguement that if she needed to go back to work sooner, that the symptoms would have…

Given my working class background, she's spot on. If you don't have paid leave, you don't have time to see the doctor. Thousands of people die every year just because they don't have time to see a doctor since they're too busy making Subway sandwiches or whatever. She supported her point rather well, post pregnancy complications are extremely common and it shouldn't be a shocker to say you should have time to handle…

"Thousands of people die every year just because they don't have time to see a doctor since they're too busy making Subway sandwiches or whatever."

I don't think this story shows that. This story involves a call to the doctor. The doctor says it's life threatening. Any person would choose to take off rather than die.

In fact, in my experience the people who die because they didn't see a doctor didn't know how serious their condition was, or didn't know they even had a condition. If anything, this story is a good argument for better patient education. After all, she had time off and still didn't pay attention to her symptoms - symptoms which were almost certainly required to be covered with the discharge instructions. So this is really an example of what paid leave looks like and how patient education needs to be improved.

"post pregnancy complications are extremely common and it shouldn't be a shocker to say you should have time to handle those."

This shouldn't be specific to pregnancy. This same logic can be applied to other medical issues. Is there really any reason to differentiate on causation when talking about medical recovery? There may be childcare issues that could support maternity leave, but those were not really covered here. So I would say this was an article mostly focused on appeal to emotion and theatrics (just look at that intro), not a well reasoned argument.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#276

Post by mataug »

This is one of the reasons why I don't want to have kids in the US.

- Paid parental leave is inadequate

- Child care is obscenely expensive

- Putting my child through a good school district might make me house-poor.

- I'm not sure I can save my child from crippling Student debt without killing my retirement savings.

- The looming climate disaster that my child might have to go through.

Given all these factors, it doesn't make sense for me to consider having children, I'd rather enjoy the life I have with my partner.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#277

Post by bell-cot »

the-dude wrote: post #158
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

Not all women are equal. I have seen women who gave birth just a couple of weeks before, thriving & bursting of energy in the workplace.

Old family wisdom: There is no "normal" for normal (meaning non-C-section) childbirth. A mother's physical and mental recovery timelines will vary (possibly widely) with each birth, and assumptions that it'll just keep getting easier tend to end badly.

(C-sections are somewhat more predictable on the physical recovery side...but do not lack for issues of their own.)

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#278

Post by conductr »

sangnoir wrote: post #271
conductr wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US? FMLA? Just curious if you felt you couldn't take it due to company culture or if it just didn't apply to you? Either way, a horrible experience for you I know. I’ve been fortunate to work with folks that are family friendly when things like this arise. I can’t even imagine opening my laptop while in the hospital and in that headspace.

FMLA leave is unpaid. Not many people can afford to go through 8 months without income, especially with a child in the NICU.

Good point. Suppose I was assuming that wasn’t a factor here since they said they would have quit if not for employer based insurance.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#279

Post by 999900000999 »

giantg2 wrote: post #275
999900000999 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given my working class background, she's spot on. If you don't have paid leave, you don't have time to see the doctor. Thousands of people die every year just because they don't have time to see a doctor since they're too busy making Subway sandwiches or whatever. She supported her point rather well, post pregnancy complications are extremely common and it shouldn't be a shocker to say you should have time to handle…

"Thousands of people die every year just because they don't have time to see a doctor since they're too busy making Subway sandwiches or whatever." I don't think this story shows that. This story involves a call to the doctor. The doctor says it's life threatening. Any person would choose to take off rather than die. In fact, in my experience the people who die because they didn't see a doctor didn't know how serious…

In a better world you'd also get paid time off after a car crash , heart surgery, etc.

America's the only county that doesn't offer parental leave, it's not radical to say this leads to poor outcomes.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5g8eq/amazon-denied-a-worke...

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#280

Post by sangnoir »

DrBazza wrote: post #156
endisneigh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is forcing women back to work?

> Who is forcing women back to work? A modern Western lifestyle. Almost every Western country without fail requires dual incomes to afford a basic lifestyle. The working-dad stay-at-home mum has long gone.

> Almost every Western country without fail requires dual incomes to afford a basic lifestyle

It will be remiss not to mention that America stands alone among western countries in not providing livable subsidies/incomes to recent parents, and expects them to be back in the workforce after a couple of weeks. The rest of the western world is far less aggressive in "forcing" women back to work.

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