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.NET 6 Released

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Re: .NET 6 Released

#271

Post by moonchrome »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #218
UglyToad wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perceived cool factor, I think. Both .NET/C# and Java are the core of Dark Matter Development [0]. They're what a huge chunk of developers and enterprise actually use but they're not cool and they don't get blogged about. Obviously the history of EEE and Windows only legacy means there's a lot of hostility to anything .NET specifically amongst a subpopulation of developers. However I don't think it sufficiently expla…

Not just "cool factor". From your linked article: "Where are the dark matter developers? Probably getting work done. Maybe using ASP.NET 1.1 at a local municipality or small office. Maybe working at a bottling plant in Mexico in VB6. Perhaps they are writing PHP calendar applications at a large chip manufacturer" i.e. in Cost Centers not Revenue Centers, which is to say in jobs that do not pay well, and their managem…

Exactly - .NET ecosystem and community is structured around cost center development.

I see Microsoft attempting to make C#/ASP.NET more lean and faster to get started with (eg. minimal APIs) but I doubt they can overcome the stigma.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#272

Post by the_arun »

abdusco wrote: post #196
mrweasel wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, wait… .Net can build “static linked” executables that doesn’t require that I install .Net to run? I had no idea, I guess it’s time to revisit .Net

That's exactly what it is. You can even cross-compile for all supported platforms. $ dotnet new console -n HelloWorld $ dotnet publish --project HelloWorld -r osx-arm64 --self-contained -o out -p:PublishTrimmed=true $ du -sh out 10M

I haven't used .net. But how memory management happens when you are running a binary executable? Does it have a builtin CLR (Common Language Runtime[1])? Because CLR provides the tools for managing memory & security?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Language_Runtime

Re: .NET 6 Released

#273

Post by tester756 »

symlinkk wrote: post #233
lbriner wrote: post #3

I would personally prefer you to fix the multitude of things that don't work well in Visual Studio and library issues that are continually pushed back as "won't fix" or "upgrade to .Net5/6" as opposed to always racing forwards to the horizon. Even those of us who are actively migrating applications are stuck with web forms, netfx and dotnet core 2/3 and will be for years, so it would be nice that we felt some love ra…

Why can’t you upgrade to the latest version? Sounds like tech debt. And Visual Studio is almost dead, why aren’t you on Visual Studio Code?

>And Visual Studio is almost dead, why aren’t you on Visual Studio Code?

That's incredibly weird take in my opinion.

Whenever I use VS Code, then I feel huge gap between this and real VS with Roslynator extension.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#274

Post by lowbloodsugar »

oaiey wrote: post #239
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with my personal projects, I am wondering "What am I learning?" and "How might this benefit me professionally?" Other times I'm thinking "I just want this to work". I started with C# with 1.0, back when structs inside structs didn't serialize properly. I've written iOS apps with Xamarin. I am a C# fan. I haven't used it professionally in a decade and my last personal project was years ago. When is C# the right i…

Yeah .. but there is one aspect in this argumentation: C# is everywhere a reasonable contender. So while you rarely get a dominant position (Unity and Backends) you get a lot of second places (Apps, Desktop, ...) which complement your full stack experience in an awesome language. And this is different to other languages: Python/Go: no-show in apps; JavaScript: no-show in data science; Swift: no-show in backends (than…

>From a management perspective, this is not bad. You get movable team members.

I have a friend-of-a-friend who has a successful 30 person contracting business. They do C#. He, the co-owner benefits from this.

I was responding to a question from a FAANG developer. FAANG developers don't get moved. FAANG developers move when they want to move: to projects that they find interesting; to other FAANGs; or to start-ups.

And FAANGs don't pick one language because "hey, it's possible to do what you want in it".

Re: .NET 6 Released

#275

Post by jug »

int_19h wrote: post #206
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been their modus operandi forever. I've got to the point where I don't trust them on any of this stuff. I target WinForms and if they ever decide to kill that then I'll abandon the platform completely. >Who cares about "styling" your app and all the rest of the garbage. One of the problems with WPF is the lack of styling of the standard controls. It takes a lot of work to ensure your app doesn't look like a…

Why would you want to style standard controls in a desktop app? They should look the way they look everywhere else in the OS.

WPF has no such concept. Even if you don’t use a library for this, it’ll then just use the built in style after detecting your OS version and adapting to that. But it does this by pulling out hard coded resources shipping with WPF. If you wish, you can override and tell WPF to look like XP on Windows 10 instead… It’s all just a good try, but still a facade. It does not and can not (per design) rely on “native controls”. I suppose because it’s DirectX based rather than GDI.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#276

Post by smackeyacky »

bob1029 wrote: post #224
gmueckl wrote: post #5

.NET 6 seems like a pretty good release with a few cool new features. But it's funny how the infographic in the post mentions MAUI for desktop development, but the "desktop" keyword in the text is referring to the WinForms github repository. I can't think of a more concise statement about the state of GUI development on .NET. I would really wish for less fragmentation and churn in that space.

My strategy for dealing with Microsoft's regrettable desktop GUI roadmap is to use the web as much as possible. .NET has an incredible suite of features for pushing functionality to the browser. Kestrel is one of the fastest web servers available today. Developing directly against the AspNetCore pipeline has a bit of a learning curve, but it becomes very intuitive once you get over the DI/startup hard bits, and the p…

For "regrettable" substitute "tire fire"

Re: .NET 6 Released

#277

Post by throw868788 »

runevault wrote: post #228
throw868788 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think F# is that second class anymore especially if you are developing on Linux/Mac OSX. The more concise language/syntax is a big plus when you don't want the heavy IDE and want to be cross platform. The VS Code plugin for example seems more mature than Omnisharp and while like any other Code plugin less flaky than many of the others. It seems to be keeping up with the broader .NET ecosystem pretty well I th…

It might not be full second class but I dunno I'd go all the way to first class. For example F# doesn't support the source generators feature that came with .NET 5 (unless they added it in 6 and I missed it but when I looked at that post you linked I didn't recall seeing it).

They got type generators which somewhat influenced and predates the Source Generator feature by a few years. Not the same thing of course, and from what I've seen are slightly different in target/scope. (e.g. F#'s seems more appropriate for scripting where you can use it without a proj entry).

Re: .NET 6 Released

#278

Post by mastax »

cm2187 wrote: post #230
yread wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just keep recognizing that WinForms is the best. And you can still use it

Do they have full support in .net 6? I believe in previous version it was a partial/beta implementation. Hardly any mention of winform in the announcement. I am basically stuck on .net 4.8 because of that.

I just ported a WPF app where the story is similar. Yes, I'd call it "full support". It's not a drop-in replacement, though, except for really simple apps. Check the Breaking Changes List for .NET 6[0], .NET 5, and .NET Core 3.1. Some more niche APIs like `System.Runtime.InteropServices.RegistrationServices` are not supported on .NET 5+ at all. If you have NuGet packages that haven't been updated since 2011 you may need to find modern replacements. There is an Upgrade Assistant tool[1] which can do much of the work. You'll probably have to spend a few annoying hours googling and editing .csproj files by hand.

[0]: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/compatibility/6... [1]: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/porting/upgrade...

Re: .NET 6 Released

#279

Post by metaltyphoon »

qwertox wrote: post #252
abdusco wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what it is. You can even cross-compile for all supported platforms. $ dotnet new console -n HelloWorld $ dotnet publish --project HelloWorld -r osx-arm64 --self-contained -o out -p:PublishTrimmed=true $ du -sh out 10M

Wow... I didn't know. Since when can it do this?

Since .net core 3.0

Re: .NET 6 Released

#280

Post by vsareto »

UglyToad wrote: post #49
jekude wrote: post #34

As a relatively new engineer (~2 years FAANG experience), there seems to be a connotation around .NET. Perhaps this is indicative of the larger Microsoft ecosystem, but it feels like my peers at university and in the industry tend to stay far away from .NET for personal projects, etc. Why is this?

Perceived cool factor, I think. Both .NET/C# and Java are the core of Dark Matter Development [0]. They're what a huge chunk of developers and enterprise actually use but they're not cool and they don't get blogged about. Obviously the history of EEE and Windows only legacy means there's a lot of hostility to anything .NET specifically amongst a subpopulation of developers. However I don't think it sufficiently expla…

I thought we were calling us plumbers >:(
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