Clear demonstration of why initiatives such as "public money public code" are so important.
https://publiccode.eu/
Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops
271–280 of 357 posts
Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops
#272If someone publishes info on how your API’s work that should not be a security problem unless you “implement security” client side. That would also explain the request to takedown the github repo, as well as why the API suddenly changes.
Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is clearly an API in play here. The article mentions it numerous times. The client app has to use an API to get its data, that's a downside of deploying a SPA. You need to make an API for it to get data from. If you don't want to make an API that exposes raw data just write a SSR app. If you want to deploy a SPA, well, you have to deploy an API as well and you need to plan around the fact that when you throw an…
It might technically look like an API - but it could still not count as an API legally (for the constitutional trick) if the interface was not intended to be public. If you want to stretch the terms, everything on and off the web that does communication is basically an API - it's just that some of those APIs use JSON to encode their data and make it really easy to access... and some of them bury it in mountains of HT…
The law is not specific at all in regards to the format of the document. So to talk about an “API legally” has no meaning. In a private scenario it makes sense but what we are talking about here is public documents which are sent through an API. The city has responsibility to only send information I have (as a parent) legally right to see. How I parse it and present it is up to me as citizen (through an app or save it as json and upload to an excel file or such)
One implication of this project could be that government agencies in Sweden can not have private API:s.
To use more proprietary methods (private api:s) will have no effect on the constitutional law. You still have received a public document as a citizen.
Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
(I am Christian Landgren, cofounder of the project) You are right, the city believes they have ownership of the data, mainly because they fail to understand that they aren’t showing data in an app, but rather publishing data in an API. In Swedish law, once you have released data from a government, the receiver have the right to do whatever they want with the that data (as long as it isn’t violating any other laws). T…
Hi, congrats on the app. I was curious about one thing in the article - why would the city pay to license the app when it is open source? Do you anticipate that this would be cheaper for them than them paying one of their overpriced contractors to build and publish an "official" version, given how much they spent on a CRUD app?
Thanks!
Well we have already made the source code open and free and also encouraged the city to release an app with our source code as base. They weren’t interested in that. They would rather license the app, support and maintenance to us. We have quoted a fixed sum per month for that service and we plan to use that money to reimburse everyone sending PR:s we merge.
Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds like you may have had a very unorthodox childhood and may not realize it. No, my parents didn't have access to, or knowledge about my things. As soon as you entrust a child with a document, it is up to that child whether that document survives more than a few steps out of the classroom, let alone whether a parent ever knows about it. That is a very strong form of autonomy, important to a child's development…
When you let elementary school children fail constantly at easy tasks because they forgot about them it just instills in them that the grades don't really matter. Little children need the habit formation brought on by asking if their homework is done everyday, how they're doing in school, and if there are any upcoming projects because they just don't have the discipline at that age usually. As they get older these ch…
You spent a lot of effort responding to a strawman that isn't at all the point I'm making.
Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
It might technically look like an API - but it could still not count as an API legally (for the constitutional trick) if the interface was not intended to be public. If you want to stretch the terms, everything on and off the web that does communication is basically an API - it's just that some of those APIs use JSON to encode their data and make it really easy to access... and some of them bury it in mountains of HT…
The law is not specific at all in regards to the format of the document. So to talk about an “API legally” has no meaning. In a private scenario it makes sense but what we are talking about here is public documents which are sent through an API. The city has responsibility to only send information I have (as a parent) legally right to see. How I parse it and present it is up to me as citizen (through an app or save i…
Here's one possible issue though - I asked (in another sibling comment) if `ls` could be considered a filesystem API - I strongly believe it is. That means we probably (for sanity's sake) need to differentiate internal vs. external APIs and provide a method for safely allowing this public document method to be well defined.
If a spy is filling out an expense report via secure email after an undercover mission to Norway (trying to figure out if Norway is hording lutefisk, I assume) which ends up resulting in a bombshell report to the public about international lutefisk accessibility then that report is clearly public - but the spy's expense report (including, I'd assume, their identity) is something that should logically be kept secret. There's some press secretary in the middle that takes the raw information and turns it into the scandal we all know it would be.
The data being transmitted over an API is not intended to be directly consumed by the public - there is, instead, an application that exists to take that raw data and transform it into something that is publicly viewable. That application is the corollary for our press secretary here.
I am concerned this might be a bigger rabbit hole than you expect. I totally agree that the town shouldn't flip out and be stupid calling in legal authorities like it currently is - but I think this might be more complex.
Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If she is not good at managing that sort of thing, then she needs to get better. ...And how do you think that happens? "Sarah, I can't help but notice that you have emotional regulation issues. Go get better at it."
I would ask her why she didn’t do well on her math test and encourage her to think about strategies she could use to do better on the next one. I believe in providing scaffolding and empowering young minds. I realize there are different parenting styles but at some point the child won’t have anyone else to manage her and will need to solve problems in her own. It’s great if she has a lot of practice and experience wi…
> ask her why she didn’t do well on her math test
That sounds like a reasonable approach for some parent-kid combinations. But as far as this discussion goes...
It was about an app that provided information like grades and that a test was coming up with the parent. It sounds like it would be a perfectly fine complement to your approach, no?
I don't see how it is some sort of replacement that is going to make everyone into helicopter parents. (And the problem with helicopter parents is not caused by some app.) In fact, I have trouble seeing how it intrudes more than the entirely nondigital approach to school-parent communication used when I was a kid - bring back this piece of paper with a parent's signature.
Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops
#278It would be interesting to know what contractor delivered the original $120m mess, and actively sabotaged open source efforts. The combination of large budget and terrible result suggest some of the very large contractors used to doing work for fortune 500 companies. Shame on those who work there.
Are we shaming employees for company choices? Who works at companies who haven't done questionable actions?
Yes. I'd not do it, and I am sure many other would rather look for a different job (which is not difficult) than engage in such acts. Its a personal choice to work for companies acting immorally.
Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can there be defense against this? The US does this but the military contracts aren't executed shoddily, although it seems that many others are. Why would they make such a crappy program, don't they have any incentive to have a good reputation or to get more contracts? If it sucks and their history sucks, why would anyone want to hire them?
> The US does this but the military contracts aren't executed shoddily Did we finally decide to stop shoveling money into the F-35 or is that still ongoing?
Is it bad? I don't know whats the problems with it.
Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there any way to write an app that doesn’t “publish the data” by this definition? It seems like publishing was not their intent, and furthermore they were not legally allowed to “publish” personal data. For example if their system includes an app that lets you see your students grades and disciplinary issues, presumably you would not want that published. Is it simply impossible to build an app with such data in Sw…
No, because applications, publishing and intent doesn't factor in. Student grades and disciplinary issues become official documents as soon as the teacher documents them regardless of form (i.e. paper, audio recording, IT-system, etc). The school is then obligated to provide those official documents to anyone upon request. The school could argue that this information should be kept secret but student grades are not e…
Can a different parent look at my child's grades? Or is there still some level of privacy where only certain parties are allowed to view certain documents even if they are official.