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France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

reuters.com

271–280 of 301 posts

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#271

I don't even think Amazon wins on cost. It also wins on convenience and completeness. If I need to find a book or research on a subject, I'm not going to peruse a local book store, I'm going to use a Library Catalog, Amazon Search, or Google Search, from the convenience of my phone or desktop. Local book stores being the same price, or even cheaper, isn't likely to influence my initial tendency to preview on the Web…

> eventually local book shops value won't be in selling books

You seem to forget about the public that wants (demands) a book retail warehouse. The median shopper does not exhaust the market.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#272
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyone else" meaning who exactly? Who is Amazon harming in the books industry other than small retailers?

Big retailers ?

Like Fnac?

I don't know, but I'd seriously doubt Amazon could make a dent on its business considering it's French and has been selling online almost as long as Amazon.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#273
Amazons book selling business has been getting worse. It’s hard to search hard to find books, or books with common names. Shipping times are nothing special.

It’s funny how “book selling” went from being Amazon’s core business to a distraction.

Edit: I recommend EBay if you want to buy a physical tome.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh, this is going to sound pretentious, but here goes: When you follow a subject beyond a surface/casual level of understanding there is very little you just 'discover' at a bookstore, unless it's one of a few specialty shops. You follow journals, publishers' catalogs, and forums which not only keep you current with new releases, but also expose you to back-catalog and out of print material. And nobody beats Amazon…

It's not pretentious, it's true. The "Programming" section of chain bookstores would always be not-very-many shelves of "Teach Yourself X in Y Days" or "X for Dummies" books. I don't remember ever seeing any of the seminal books for noobies like "The C Programming Language" or SICP at Barnes & Noble/Borders/Chapter 11.

In Bedford MA there was a store called (IIRC) Softpro which was all software/CS/etc. I was sad when it closed, but what good is a store if the only time you can access it is once a quarter when you're in town for a project review?

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#275
post #157
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather not have them race to the bottom to "remain competitive". I also rather not have the book industry of a country dependent on the whims (and VC/bottomless pit of money to stay "competitive" while they crush a market) of an American company. Even more so one with no culture and no respect for the book as a work of the spirit whatsoever. So there's that.

I guess I would rather have cheaper books/things, don't really care whether a book seller has respect for a book as a "work of spirit" whatever that means.

The poster with «work of spirit» probably meant "outcome of higher mental work and more, including intellectual". And expressed that it should be respected as a highly dignified product (as opposed to a piece of product conceived for consumerism).

Nonetheless, i cannot really interpret that mention of Europe "as opposed to some rest". Edit: having seen further comments, I can. There are areas in Europe in which extremely light judgement and behaviour is socially unpunished and considered normal, or "normal as an exception". (In other areas, nobody with that trait could have reached, say, 18 years of age without getting "straightened".) It must be noted that those areas have a mixed population: some will behave """antisocially""" while many will remain absolutely lovely - it is just tolerance of juvenile thought and behaviour misunderstood by some """beneficiaries""" as acceptance or approval, instead of patience.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#276
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon is using its economies of scale to drive out smaller businesses. It is not unique in that. But the industries that Amazon affects may be unique to the nations that wish to preserve them. Another way of phrasing that: France’s local book sellers are so bad at serving their customers that an American company that’s existed less than 30 years can totally undercut them, despite the local sellers’ massive advanta…

Curb your american pride. Setting aside the fact that we've had two years of covid with months of curfew and lockdown that has absolutely murdered bookstores (but not Amazon), the real reason is simple: Amazon has a massive delivery network and allows for browsing online. Why do they? Because they have the money and the time to keep their stocks updated, and the scale to send out full trucks of packages to subsidise…

It’s nothing about American pride.

Did any of those advantages exist before Amazon was massive? Or did Amazon become massive because it was providing better service?

Online ordering is complicated for Amazon because Amazon is massive. It is not that complicated for small bookstores, who absolutely are using computerized inventory (at least every small bookstore I’ve ever been to has). Even if online ordering isn’t an option, “call your friendly bookstore employee to order” is an option. That’s what I mean by not being lazy - you can jump to excuses and asking the government to help, or you can come up with creative solutions to serve your customers.

Speaking of COVID, there actually are strong parallels. At the start of the pandemic, a bunch of restaurants just gave up and closed - they didn’t even attempt to find creative solutions. Other restaurants - presumably the ones with less lazy and/or stuck-in-their-ways owners - came up with creative solutions. They did takeout. They made stay-at-home craft projects to foster community over social media. They offered cooking classes with local meal kit delivery. They adapted their restaurants to facilitate delivery and takeout. Several restaurants actually ended up with larger, more prosperous businesses.

Also: it may strain your imagination, but Amazon was large and successful _before_ they had a delivery network. And they continued to grow because they provided better service, even when they were dependent on UPS and USPS. French booksellers (and all booksellers) could have chosen to improve their service in the face of competition for the years it took Amazon to create a delivery network.

At least in the US (maybe the French could copy if it doesn’t work like this) local shipping via post is actually very fast; very likely within two days if it doesn’t need to go to a distribution center. Amazon has to build thousands of warehouses to take advantage of that; grandpa’s local bookseller can naturally take advantage of that geographic locality to customers. Or they could team up with other booksellers and form a shipping alliance/partnership (this also exists among US local bookstores). Shoprunner exists. There are creative solutions beyond just giving up and asking the government to make books more expensive for everyone.

Local booksellers (the good ones, anyway) are doing fine in the US, even post-COVID. So I don’t really know why you’re making excuses for them. The French people deserve to get great service from their local booksellers.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#277
post #235
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon is using its economies of scale to drive out smaller businesses. It is not unique in that. But the industries that Amazon affects may be unique to the nations that wish to preserve them. Another way of phrasing that: France’s local book sellers are so bad at serving their customers that an American company that’s existed less than 30 years can totally undercut them, despite the local sellers’ massive advanta…

If we're talking about online, Amazon's probably better than small bookstores at delivery, service and availability. OTOH, they tend to treat their employees famously badly and since a few years their online stores are flooded by cheap crap, including fake books(!), to the point that it's a pain to actually find something of quality for many product categories. Their recommendations are just ads for irrelevant and ch…

See, this is _exactly_ why the government doesn’t need to step in to break the market.

Running a large online store is hard! Harder than running a small local business. Amazon.com has a giant fraud target painted on its back. Local stores can make a strong case for being more ethical and for shopping local. I would think, given the position of labor in French society, that it would be easy to get people to choose local if it is even somewhat close in terms of price and service.

The fake stuff on Amazon is a great case for skipping them entirely. The fact that (apparently) the government thinks that local booksellers cannot compete with a fraud/scam-riddled, employee-abusing marketplace is a giant red flag. Being a victim of fraud, and having to worry about fraud, is actually very inconvenient IMO.

I shop local when local means better service, better quality, locally-sourced ingredients, a better browsing experience (especially applicable to books), or really any other advantage. The bar for not buying online is on the floor; the only people to blame for small business not clearing that bar are small business owners.

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#278
post #59
post #5

And laissez-faire was a French invention.

It was one of those inventions you gift to inferior cultures...

I have restrained myself from much better jokes today. But if it was not a joke, why do not you argue about it?

Edit: thank you! Of course one «want[s] more details», do you think this is the place to type 'Oh, by the way, do not wait for your wife to come home tonight' and just stop there as the rest may be unimportant?!

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#279

Not a big fan of Amazon but I also find it ridiculous and self-sacking to fixate on obsolete ideas. If you have to force a business to exist, maybe it doesn’t need to exist.

It's more than just a "business" The reason of the downfall of our civilization is because of that specific problem, you think about everything as a business, including countries

But everything is a business, in the sense that it's a going concern. Also I'm not aware of any downfall of our civilization, do you have a reference?

Re: France moves to shield its book industry from Amazon

#280
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was one of those inventions you gift to inferior cultures...

I have restrained myself from much better jokes today. But if it was not a joke, why do not you argue about it? Edit: thank you! Of course one «want[s] more details», do you think this is the place to type 'Oh, by the way, do not wait for your wife to come home tonight' and just stop there as the rest may be unimportant?!

>But if it was not a joke, why do not you argue about it?

Well, it was neither a joke, nor an argument, that's why. It was a proposition/value judgement expressed in jest.

But if you want more details, it's based on the belief that the idea being that "laissez-faire" was not a good concept to begin with.

And despite being invented in France back in the day, was never really popular in France or Europe in general (Austrian economists excepted), where the "government is the enemy" idea didn't really took hold in the populace either.

We like our social democracy and government regulating some things, thank you very much.

So, unless you chance on the statistically atypical (aside from echo bubbly HN/VC style circles) european who hates "government" not for/when doing bad shit, but for being government, and wants no restrictions imposed on corporations, it is more thought of as something neoliberal / Thacherite / Ayn-Rand-loving types would have as their motto - and unironically have their militarry enforce to countries who didn't like it.

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