Overly analytical guide to escorting • Hacker News Board

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#271

Post by rndgermandude » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 12:50 PM UTC

eevilspock wrote: post #165

Yoric wrote: post #156

Very interesting article. Do I understand correctly that sex work is still illegal in the US? If so, what's the rationale? Why can't consenting adults do what they want with their body?

If a woman is poor, struggling to survive or trying to give a child a decent life in a society and economic system that is very sink or swim, do you consider it "consent" if she agrees to have sex with you so she can pay the rent, or have a decent meal, or buy the drugs she got hooked on dealing with depression and alienation, sold to her by a predatory drug dealer?

Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: assuming there is no direct coercion, like a trafficker ring/pimp involved, I fail to see how this kind of struggle is any different than the single parent working night shifts at WalMart who still needs food stamps to feed the family. Or the low wage worker going to a factory each day ripping chickens apart so you can have your chicken breast and chicken nuggets.

If your theoretical mom can make a living that does not require her to work 14h days in two jobs and never really see her kids, good for her, regardless of whether that involves sex work.

Predatory drug dealers are not exclusive to sex work either. What's the alternative for your drug addicted hooker anyway? A "steady" job is probably out of the question at this point. So... burglary and robbery? I am empathetic to drug addicts and am all in favor of helping them, also at a regulatory level. Things like decriminalizing possession and easy access to a reasonably funded support system (with social workers, etc) and treatment for those willing to take that step. Driving drug addicts, who we as a society do not help enough or who refused our help, into a life of hard crime, taking away their livelihood and/or making them even more vulnerable to abuse (if you're a "lawless" prostitute, then you won't go to the police when you've been beaten up, raped and/or robbed for fear of being arrested yourself) is not a solution to me.

All the resources spent right now punishing prostitutes and their clients could be redirected at fighting the actual criminals (the predatory drug dealers, human traffickers and pimps), and to help and support people struggling with drug addiction or mental illness as well as victims of human trafficking.

I don't get how with prostitution a lot of people always proclaim "but we should ban it entirely because trafficking and pimps and drug dealers!". All the while we do not ban all factory jobs because "there are some sweat shops with defacto forced labor!".

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#272

Post by boppo1 » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 12:54 PM UTC

throwaway75999 wrote: post #110

This was a fantastic read; thank you for sharing. I saw escorts for a couple of years. It was often weird, when I just didn’t click with the woman, but I met a few really awesome people. There are other down sides to escorting. One of the women I had seen a couple of times, was later murdered. They ended up catching the killer- another escort, I don’t know why. It was hard to grieve; we were not real close; her famil…

Out of curiosity, about how much do you make/ did you when you started seeing escorts?

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#273

Post by killtimeatwork » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 12:57 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #136

akudha wrote: post #15

1,200 an hour! Jeez, that is insane! good for them. Once in a while, I come across something like this and wonder, what is it like to be that rich to casually drop 1,200 an hour , for anything, let alone on escorts.

It strikes me somewhat oddly that one might pay so much for something that literally half the people on this planet is equipped to provide You're paying for looks, ease, simplicity, no strings, and so on... I get it. But idunno, that is a lot of money for one nut. Also suprised the San Diego price is so high, when there is a red light district literally on the border in Tijuana, and those girls charge $60-$100/hr US…

> It strikes me somewhat oddly that one might pay so much for something that literally half the people on this planet is equipped to provide

This is a luxury high-end part of the market. Ruled by the same dynamics as $200 steaks or $2000 bottles of champagne.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#274

Post by throwaway0a5e » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 12:58 PM UTC

KaiserPro wrote: post #217

manquer wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is her experience is niche and unique, it is not indicative of how the industry at large actually operates so making any judgements would not be meaningful as OP was doing.

but the issue the article points out that she as an escort has no access to law, should something go wrong. If an in-house hair dresser was assaulted/robbed/stolen from, they would be able to report it to the police. There would be a strong chance (well as high as any other crime) that it would be punished. There would also be an opportunity to use/create a verification scheme for clients, but also ask for insurance/…

>but the issue the article points out that she as an escort has no access to law, should something go wrong.

She has little to no access to state sanctioned violence. Call it what it is. If she has a business dispute she has no recourse, she can't sue the other party and get the state to put them in a cage if they don't pay. Drug industry also has the same problem and does its violence in-house. Formerly prostitution did in-house the violence necessary to settle business disputes (i.e. pimps) but the internet has changed the business model somewhat.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#275

Post by denton-scratch » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:07 PM UTC

lelandfe wrote: post #169

Yoric wrote: post #156

Very interesting article. Do I understand correctly that sex work is still illegal in the US? If so, what's the rationale? Why can't consenting adults do what they want with their body?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_United_S... It’s illegal everywhere but certain parts of Nevada. When you walk around the streets of Las Vegas you’ll therefore see hundreds and hundreds of fliers for girls. As for the history… it’s a sordid one. Read e.g https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamberlain–Kahn_Act . The US imprisoned women with venereal diseases found near military bases. Things sort of w…

> “no longer prosecute prostitution and unlicensed massage”

You can be prosecuted for giving an massage without a licence? I lived for a short while in the US, and regularly gave my female partner massages.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#276

Post by kwertyoowiyop » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:08 PM UTC

akudha wrote: post #15

1,200 an hour! Jeez, that is insane! good for them. Once in a while, I come across something like this and wonder, what is it like to be that rich to casually drop 1,200 an hour , for anything, let alone on escorts.

That could be much cheaper than getting married and divorced.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#277

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:08 PM UTC

mikevm wrote: post #192

eevilspock wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a woman is poor, struggling to survive or trying to give a child a decent life in a society and economic system that is very sink or swim, do you consider it "consent" if she agrees to have sex with you so she can pay the rent, or have a decent meal, or buy the drugs she got hooked on dealing with depression and alienation, sold to her by a predatory drug dealer?

At least a woman can take the easy way out and become a prostitute. A man has no such "luxury". Society does not pity weak men the way it pities weak women.

[deleted]

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#278

Post by jonathanstrange » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #262

jonathanstrange wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the guy not have been convicted of rape if he raped her? You're making lots of assumptions to "show" how legalizing prostitution would not make it "much safer", but common-sense tells us that legalization is a good first step to making it a bit safer. In the Netherlands police and social workers sometimes protect the outdoor areas in which prostitutes work (e.g. car parks). Why would that not make their wor…

I think you don't know how the justice system operates if you think every charge of rape leads to a conviction. In some jurisdictions prostitution is legal, such as Germany, but, afaik, that has not led to a higher number of johns being sentenced. The idea that legalization would somehow make prostitution seem to me to not be grounded in reality. More it seems like make believe for the customers: "It's not us clients…

I don't think every rape charge leads to conviction, though. Moreover, saying that clients make prostitution unsafe is like saying that drivers make the roads unsafe. What's the point of that?

I didn't present an argument for the legalization of prostitution. In my opinion, there is no need for an argument since it's completely obvious to any normal human being that it is not a crime. Why on earth would selling sex for money be crime? Is it the sex that makes it a crime? What's wrong with sex?

There is a lot of hypocrisy in the discussion of this question, though. People frequently confound other crimes with prostitution that already are crimes and would continue to be crimes after legalization such as human trafficking, rape, coercion, sexual assault, etc.

Besides, it is completely obvious that legalization improves the working conditions of prostitutes. Contrary to what you state, the police cannot make outdoor areas where sex workers work secure if prostitution is illegal, since the police is forced to persecute crimes. They'd have to arrest these sex workers. Consequently, these will conduct their business far away from the police, which is exactly what makes their work particularly insecure when it is illegal. This is just one issue. There are many other reasons why illegal activities are generally less secure than the same activities when they are legal. Illegality attracts all kinds of shady people you can avoid if you are allowed to go legit. That's not even a controversial thesis.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#279

Post by celticninja » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:21 PM UTC

newsclues wrote: post #251

c21h30o2 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question of whether it's good and wholesome is orthogonal to the question of whether society should punish those who do it. Scenario A: Resourceful, successful, happy. Should she be forced to accept dangerous working conditions and live under the constant threat of eviction, imprisonment, harassment and stigma? Why? What's the argument in favor of making her life difficult? Scenario B: Physical or mental disabili…

Scenario B workers under legalization will lose their jobs/income. Marginalized workers in the cannabis industry got pushed out when Canada legalized cannabis.

How do they lose their jobs? I get that a dealer who just sold weed now has to compete with legal alternatives or leave the sector. How so with sex work? You think the increased competition would put them out of work?

What is a marginalized worker in the cannabis sector?

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#280

Post by throwaway0a5e » Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:21 PM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #105

micromacrofoot wrote: post #13

It would be nice if we could just regulate this industry to protect the people in it and start the work of reducing the stigma. Similar to abortion, people are going to do it whether or not it's legal. It will never have an "end". It's one of the oldest professions in human history. I do not understand why people fight this battle. The number of hoops these people jump through only to be eventually assaulted and robb…

There's a recent HN thread on truck driving, which is legal and regulated, and has relatively less stigma. Yet the industry has apparently also figured out every possible way to skirt the regulations and abuse drivers physically and financially if possible. Granted, that's not a statistical assessment, but it at least suggests to me that legalization and regulation are not enough by themselves to make an occupation s…

Very few people (as a fraction of the population, spare me the wall of text about the edge cases) are negatively effected by trucking.

If every dude who wanted to get laid could do so as easily as arranging an LTL shipment that would negatively effect a far larger subset of the population.