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Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

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Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#271

Post by jan_Inkepa »

some_random wrote: post #117

Here's another one that's a bit less obvious: anytime you're scheduling a 1x1 with a report, ALWAYS mention the reason for the meeting. You might think it's obvious or that it's just a normal meeting, but you have no idea how the other person will take it.

I freeze up sometimes when my flatmate says to me "Hey I'd like to talk to you about something" and then waits a few seconds before bringing up something totally everyday thing that's not a complaint, while I've already flicked through my mental rolodex of possible co-living infractions several times for candidate complaints.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#272

Post by ipnon »

johnsimer wrote: post #218
ipnon wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be all business at work. It is your job after all. Work parties then become hilarious because all the humor is saved for special occasions.

Check out Humor, Seriously: Why Humor Is a Secret Weapon in Business and Life (And how Anyone Can Harness It. Even You.) by Jennifer Aaker and Naomi Bagdonas

My sincere thanks for the recommendation.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#273

Post by zcw100 »

giorgioz wrote: post #106
zcw100 wrote: post #15

Ok, that's nice. I'm sure some people do it carelessly but lets at least be honest and acknowledge that many also do it deliberately. It's an easy and cowardly way to assert your dominance. If you get called out on it, and you won't, you'll just say you were joking. When you're not called out on it it's a easy way of reminding people that you can do it. Maybe not now but maybe in the future when you're not feeling so…

I have been mentioning in interviews that I had to fire an employee. It was very hard for me to fire the person and I really do not wish to have to repeat that experience so I try to warn the candidates. Backstory: Our company is fully remote. One of the clause on the contract of each employee is no moonlighting. They are not allowed to work on anything else professionally. They can work on personal software project…

I wouldn't tell them the story about having fired someone. You can simply state your no moonlight policy and be done with it. There is a credibility problem. They're hearing the story from the person that was involved and only that person that they don't know, and who has a high motivation to be dishonest in how they present it in that situation.

Imagine the person sitting there. This person who I don't even work for yet is starting off with telling me about how they fired someone. Are they telling the truth? Do they really feel bad about it? Maybe it's his way of letting me know that this is the way things are around here and he knows he can't come right out and say, "I love to fire people" so he's just trying to soften it. Why's it still on his mind? Does he have a hard time letting things go and holds grudges?

How would you feel if you took someone out to dinner and on your first date started telling you some story about how bad they felt about dumping their last romantic partner? Sure maybe it was the right thing to do. You're not going to feel better about them. The best you can hope for is you don't feel worse about them. It's all down side where the best you can hope for is a neutral. If you're playing a game where the best you can do is lose or draw it's better to just not play the game. Don't talk about firing people.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#274

Post by q1w2 »

tnvaught wrote: post #70
option_greek wrote: post #30

Don't Joke is a good advice in general for management and leadership. You have to assume people will read into most of the stuff you say as you are their primary information conduit for anything related to workplace.

I would refine this advice to "sarcasm is never appropriate in an uneven power dynamic." Whether it's in the context of parenting, teaching or managing people. As a go-to form of humor, I've learned this the hard way. It's not actually helpful for folks to hear the hilarious monologue going on in my head when I'm feeling salty. There _are_ legitimately relationship-building funny things to say, but they're usually se…

Having read many many court documents, I couldn't agree with you more.

I have seen literally hundreds of comments/jokes/emails/phone call recordings/etc taken out of obvious context and submitted as evidence - often to the detriment of the innocent. In the serious environment of a lawyers office or court room, or in the intentionally biased environment of social media - NOTHING IS FUNNY. All jokes are insensitive at best, or are at worst evidence of malicious intent.

Over the years, in my opinion, I have personally this phenomenon getting significantly worse.

We advise all our clients just not to make jokes, unless you're in private with very close friends/colleagues you trust. Never EVER make a joke or sarcastic comment in writing. Anything that can be misinterpreted, WILL be misconstrued, often intentionally, when any relationship sours.

In general, if you are or might become under any scrutiny whatsoever, golden rule #1 is: Shut the fuck up.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#275

Post by q1w2 »

ludamad wrote: post #65
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I certainly agree that jokes are dangerous , they're also a key way humans form social connections! I do think a sense of humor is important for building a rapport with colleagues.

As management especially, joke clearly . There is far more weight on you to not mislead than for the "keep a serious atmosphere" that some might take it as

You have to be careful. Relationships sour, and nothing is funny when read in court.

One thing is for certain, NEVER put jokes or sarcasm in writing.

I've read way too many of those in court.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#276

Post by Zanneth »

jon-wood wrote: post #135
giorgioz wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been mentioning in interviews that I had to fire an employee. It was very hard for me to fire the person and I really do not wish to have to repeat that experience so I try to warn the candidates. Backstory: Our company is fully remote. One of the clause on the contract of each employee is no moonlighting. They are not allowed to work on anything else professionally. They can work on personal software project…

Since you've explicitly asked for advice, the only way to assess remote employees is by what they're delivering. If you employ them for 40 hours a week, but they can deliver what you're asking in 5 and still be responsive when needed, is there really a problem? If they're also doing another job on the side, but it isn't impacting their delivery of the work you're asking for, that shouldn't be a problem. By doing away…

It's a really unethical thing to do, and you don't want unethical people working at your company.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#277

Post by giorgioz »

jon-wood wrote: post #135
giorgioz wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been mentioning in interviews that I had to fire an employee. It was very hard for me to fire the person and I really do not wish to have to repeat that experience so I try to warn the candidates. Backstory: Our company is fully remote. One of the clause on the contract of each employee is no moonlighting. They are not allowed to work on anything else professionally. They can work on personal software project…

Since you've explicitly asked for advice, the only way to assess remote employees is by what they're delivering. If you employ them for 40 hours a week, but they can deliver what you're asking in 5 and still be responsive when needed, is there really a problem? If they're also doing another job on the side, but it isn't impacting their delivery of the work you're asking for, that shouldn't be a problem. By doing away…

>assess remote employees is by what they're delivering

I agree but that is easier said than done. Software is very intangible and creative and I do not have experience in managing other developers.

One of my employees is a university dropout with 3 years working experience from a developing country and is the only developer other than me. I have no clue what's the amount of code he's suppose to deliver. I have very little metrics of reference to work with.

Re: Advice to New Managers: Don't Joke About Firing People (2020)

#278

Post by giorgioz »

vincentmarle wrote: post #226
giorgioz wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been mentioning in interviews that I had to fire an employee. It was very hard for me to fire the person and I really do not wish to have to repeat that experience so I try to warn the candidates. Backstory: Our company is fully remote. One of the clause on the contract of each employee is no moonlighting. They are not allowed to work on anything else professionally. They can work on personal software project…

> Our company is fully remote. One of the clause on the contract of each employee is no moonlighting. They are not allowed to work on anything else professionally. They can work on personal software project if they notify me in advance. This is because in a fully remote companies there are not office hours and it's very hard to define what's work and what's not. > I'm a single founder software engineer growing a team…

But doesn't Google and many other tech companies in the silicon valley own all the code you write as a developer while employed? That's kind of a no-moonlighting policy.
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