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Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

wsj.com

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Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#271

Post by fh973 »

enriquto wrote: post #218
sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

> For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. I don't know about Angola, but in most european countries it's really easy to buy guns (for hunting, sharp-shooting, etc.). When my dad retired he joined a shooting club with his friends, the gun permit being slightly harder to obtain than a fishing permit. There are gun shops everywhere whe…

Actually getting a fishing permit in Germany is quite an undertaking. The theoretical exam is based on a catalog of several hundred questions.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#272

Post by staunch »

sofixa wrote: post #96
chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

> Furthermore, i find US fascination with their theoretical ability to fight their government with small arms adorable and misguided.

I find the historical and military ignorance of people who imply this even more adorable. Especially given the timing of the recent example, where the Taliban defeated a massive military force that was equipped with modern U.S. weaponry including tanks, helicopters, and armored vehicles.

Not to mention the countless other examples of uprisings using small arms successfully against superior military forces. Add in the fact that the U.S. citizenry is made up of tens of millions of military veterans and is more well armed than any civilian population in the history of the planet. It would not take long for a revolutionary force to take control of many military bases and armories within the U.S.

The idea that 50 or 100 million armed U.S. citizens couldn't defeat a few hundred thousand armed U.S. soldiers (most of whom would defect) is adorable in its child-like ignorance.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#273

Post by hpoe »

mullingitover wrote: post #154
sharklazer wrote: post #53

Everyone should own a gun, and most more than 1. If we were to maintain public education (which... just no, please) gun education should be standard.

I'd rather reduce my chances of being shot, which is a thing you can do by simply declining to purchase a firearm[1] > Overall, Branas’s study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher. [1] h…

But if you go to the beach 3 times your risk of getting shot by a dog with a handgun in its mouth is 50% higher.[1]

[1] https://xkcd.com/1252/

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#274

Post by standardUser »

bm3719 wrote: post #106

Excellent. There's no reason defensive gun buyers should be demographically different from the general population. It's understandable that gun sales for hunting or other activities might show differences, but we all have the same personal security needs. Side note: I'm one of the people here with a large collection of firearms. One thing to realize when you see the statistic that the US has more firearms than people…

For decades I have lived deep in the heart of some of the densest cities in the country (SF and NYC). These are places with serious and obvious crime problems that I have seen up close and personal, day in and day out. Yet to me, despite these experiences, the entire concept of "personal security needs" involving firearms is absolutely absurd. It sounds like a Monty Python sketch. Silly to the point of absurdity.

But, I don't deny that tens of millions of Americans do genuinely think that owning a firearm is a legitimate security precaution. Even though they mostly live in vastly, vastly safer zip codes.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#276

Post by chmod600 »

endymi0n wrote: post #235
phendrenad2 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3x a small number is still a small number. Your chances of getting struck by lightning increase if you live on a hill, but no one is basing home buying decisions on that. The real argument is that guns enable acts that, while rare, and while they affect few people, are so egregious that we as a society will go to great lengths to ensure they never happen (school shootings).

Note this is just murder, but murder is merely a small fraction of gun deaths. The multiplier for all firearm-related deaths between the US and EU average for example is around 12X, more than an order of magnitude [1]. The elephant in the room however is that the main argument simply doesn't hold up. Owning a gun doesn't just make the owner slightly more likely to get shot, but also everyone around them [2] Or, as th…

"I wish Americans could get a feeling of how different a society without a perpetual feeling of danger and paranoia feels like."

I don't feel paranoia. Maybe most people are fine except people who consume too much fear-driven media?

I mean, it's not like paranoid people are only paranoid about guns. They are paranoid about everything.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#277

Post by cratermoon »

monoideism wrote: post #184
sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

> their theoretical ability to fight their government with small arms adorable and misguided Taliban? Vietcong?

VC was supported by China. Taliban is supported by Pakistan and Russia. They don't have "small arms", they have the backing of major powers.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#278

Post by [deleted] »

sofixa wrote: post #96
chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

[deleted]

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#279

Post by Bhilai »

A friend of our family recently bought a gun and that made me ask them why. Their response was of course personal safety at which point I asked them some more questions and turns out they keep the gun in a gun safe and bullets in another location so as to not cause any accidents as they have kids. But this practice seemed utterly useless if their home was being actively being robbed/attacked since they wont have the time to go fetch bullets/gun and most likely they ll end getting their weapon robbed as well.

They also don't carry it everywhere they go so its mostly a trophy in a safe.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#280

Post by tablespoon »

thebooktocome wrote: post #216
Throwawayaerlei wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore, i find US fascination with their theoretical ability to fight their government with small arms adorable and misguided. So did our Deep State as they lost a twenty year fight against the Taliban. Who immediately started seizing the people's guns upon capturing Kabul. not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the high availability of guns for everyone The suicide statistics from…

Blaming the Afghanistan War on the "Deep State" is a very odd choice to me. Does the Deep State ratify authorizations for the use of military force and approve military spending budgets?

>>> Furthermore, i find US fascination with their theoretical ability to fight their government with small arms adorable and misguided.

>> So did our Deep State as they lost a twenty year fight against the Taliban. Who immediately started seizing the people's guns upon capturing Kabul.

> Blaming the Afghanistan War on the "Deep State" is a very odd choice to me. Does the Deep State ratify authorizations for the use of military force and approve military spending budgets?

You missed the point, which was the kind of thinking that says armed civilians stand no chance against a modern military also says the US should have prevailed in Afghanistan.

I believe "deep state" here is a tendentious term that refers to the permanent, unelected parts of the executive branch. Their expert analysis said the US was just about to "turn the corner" for 20 years. It's not about the decision to go in the first place.

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