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The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

theguardian.com

271–280 of 372 posts

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never claimed big news, I just posted an analogue case where a bank holds power over an org, in a thread about banks holding power over orgs. What is your point?

Because your quote in the post above is literally a lie due to omission of that key word - no, dutch banks did not terminate the accounts of any Corona-critics / anti-vax'ers / conspiracy nuts (the obvious/natural reading of that sentence implies they blocked accounts of people like that), they just terminated accounts of some organizations. As currently written, that quote asserts that banks not only hold power over…

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Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#272
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should have some sort of internet money that can be used to transact without any central authority.

So far every option has a usability problem that's been solved by companies with the same KYC requirements as credit card processors. This will remain the case as long as people also want to transact in fiat currency, and that will be true as long as it's how people pay the bills and buy food. Any crypto-only platform that solves the problem of everyone needing a copy of the ledger and gains meaningful adoption will…

FedNow would also make this theoretically possible, no? No middle man, just transfer money between accounts.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#273
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d guess billions of dollars flow through pornhub, they’re the 10th most visited website in the world. They apparently have still had incredible difficulty getting anyone to process payments for them.

I expect that you are off by several orders of magnitude.

Digging a bit more, I don’t think so. The company that owns PornHub does about half a billion dollars per year in revenue: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindGeek

That includes revenue from other brands too, but I believe PornHub is their top brand, and likely accounts for a good portion of that. Also, how much money flows through PornHub that doesn’t count as revenue? I don’t know much about their business model, but say if a content creator generates $100 in total revenue on PH, and $40 goes to PH while $60 goes to the content creator, I’d guess that’s $100 in payments processed, but only $40 in MindGeek revenue?

Based on that, I’d estimate the volume of $$ flowing through PH at somewhere around $100,000,000-$1,000,000,000 annually. Even on the low end of that, around a billion should have flowed through them so far, over the lifetime of the site. And I think multiple billions is quite possible.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#274
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d guess billions of dollars flow through pornhub, they’re the 10th most visited website in the world. They apparently have still had incredible difficulty getting anyone to process payments for them.

I expect that you are off by several orders of magnitude.

Pornhub launched in 2007 according to Wikipedia. Mindgeek (Pornhub's owner) had a reported $460 mm in revenue in 2015. (https://www.luxtimes.lu/en/luxembourg/mindgeek-porn-empire-r...) Pornhub is privately owned, so how much of that $460 mm is Pornhub vs other properties is unknown, but Pornhub having made a billion dollars over its 14 years doesn't really seem that far fetched.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#275

I was thinking of this just the other day. Just the past few weeks, Apple with CSAM, OnlyFans getting between people and their fans/clients. All of these big corporate moves are making me think more and more of decentralization of platforms. Is that coming?

> All of these big corporate moves are making me think more and more of decentralization of platforms. Is that coming?

Absolutely not. Decentralized and self-hosted alternatives to doing anything on the internet have been available since the beginning, but

1) people choose convenience, every single time

2) popular things get popular

3) corpos have what it takes to make a thing popular

4) popular things get popular among the audience because all the content is there

5) popular things get popular among the "content creators" because all the audience is there

6) it's hard to make an artificially popular decentralized service without centralized investment into it; platforms that rely on individual users meshing their internet connections and $5 VPSes start small and stay niche

7) central investing into a platform without moderation and censorship is very risky, so it's unlikely to happen and if it does happen, it's likely to draw the same fire from banks, hosting providers, regulators, etc.

8) any platform that offers moderation and censorship and gets big enough will eventually get between what people want and those who provide that

9) lots of people actually want moderation and censorship, not freedom

10) the "scene" behind decentralized stuff is also divided on the issue of moderation

11) if a decentralized platform with no moderation were indeed to get big, it would again draw fire from various parties (see how various file sharing protocols and sites died)

There's more to it but point is, a "big" decentralized platform cannot happen (or at least cannot last) unless it also has a central entity that wields the power to do the same things that happen on centralized platforms. And people really just want to use one big platform.

And it's not a technical issue, it's a social & political issue.

To make a system that won't bend under the powers that be, people would also have to accept that they're hosting child porn, terrorist materials, drug trafficking, and other fun stuff. That's never going to happen.

The alternative is decentralized platforms that are and stay niche. They exist already, they've existed since the beginning. Are you using them, or are you just using the big few popular centralized platforms? I'm guessing you're not using them because "Is that coming?" kind of implies you think it's something that doesn't exist yet.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#276

The reason the banks, and through the banks OnlyFans, attack sex is because they are accountable, and don't wish to take risks unless they are very profitable risks. The real danger of platforms and banks is how happy they are to censor for the government, or simply the loudest, richest mouth, in order to keep the profit flowing. If you want to fix it, you put in legal protections for people to do business, rather th…

> The real danger of platforms and banks is how happy they are to censor for the government

One of the great usecases for crypto

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#277

The reason the banks, and through the banks OnlyFans, attack sex is because they are accountable, and don't wish to take risks unless they are very profitable risks. The real danger of platforms and banks is how happy they are to censor for the government, or simply the loudest, richest mouth, in order to keep the profit flowing. If you want to fix it, you put in legal protections for people to do business, rather th…

If people really want to fix this, they'll go back to creating independent web sites... Social media lures people in, takes a significant part of real money generated from creators, and then slowly tightens rules to protect it's own interests and profit while forsaking creators and that includes gradual suppression of promotional equality for creators.

The whole scheme to make creators pay to run ads is a failed ideology if creator content is the very thing that platforms depend on to succeed.

This is why I always edit/record to files I can re-use/re-distribute rather than using native record options on platform-specific apps.

I make music, not adult content though just FTR.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point? That someone at the Guardian does not share your personal opinion? As for me, I'm not okay with either banks discriminating against free speech and banks discriminating against porn. For example, I was vigorously against banks blocking Wikileaks payments. Therefore, I'm fine with the Guardian article.

What about banning Proud Boy accounts or Gab/Andrew Torba?

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Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#279

I was thinking of this just the other day. Just the past few weeks, Apple with CSAM, OnlyFans getting between people and their fans/clients. All of these big corporate moves are making me think more and more of decentralization of platforms. Is that coming?

> All of these big corporate moves are making me think more and more of decentralization of platforms. Is that coming? Absolutely not. Decentralized and self-hosted alternatives to doing anything on the internet have been available since the beginning, but 1) people choose convenience, every single time 2) popular things get popular 3) corpos have what it takes to make a thing popular 4) popular things get popular am…

Brilliantly put.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#280
Haven't we been seeing this same scandal over the past couple of years? Personally I hate some of the political content that has been deplatformed, but every time one gets shut down, something about that process just doesn't sit right with me.
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