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For developers, Safari is crap and outdated

blog.perrysun.com

271–280 of 623 posts

Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated

#271
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reddit is a pretty low bar Reddit is a multi billion dollar product and one of the most trafficked sites on the internet.

If you've ever used their mobile site, it's clear they go out of their way to sabotage the experience so that people will use the native app instead

They sabotage the desktop site as well. I don't understand how anybody can see the current atrocity as an improvement. It's borderline unusable.

Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated

#273
post #19

If you look at the features that Apple lags on adding support for, usually it's either because: 1. they can be abused (PWAs) 2. are complex to implement (WebRTC – for the longest time the recommendation in the WebRTC community if you wanted to build a C++ app was to bundle a good chunk of Chrome's libraries) 3. or could be bad for battery (web workers) So yeah, it makes some developers' jobs harder but generally ther…

Okay, sure. But can I please have input type="number" and have the css gap property work with flex like it does in every other browser?

Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated

#274
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you like to be notified about meetings in your calendar? Yes Would you like notifications when someone mentions or DMs you in your work chat? Yes Would you like to know when you get emails? Yes Also only one of the things you mentioned has anything to do with notifications.

We could have had passwordless internet if people behaved nicely. Instead of signing in into Gmail with a password and 2FA code, typing your e-mail address would have been enough to see your e-mails if everyone was honest and never misuse this power.

We wouldn't need authentication then...

Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated

#275

>Why did developers and software engineers hate IE so much? Because IE was seriously outdated, lacking support for cutting-edge web APIs and technologies enabling the modern websites and web apps we use today. Nonsense. The almost universal contempt for Internet Exploder amongst web developers had nothing to do with lack of support for cutting edgw APIs. It was because Internet Exploder refused to follow basic web st…

> The almost universal contempt for Internet Exploder amongst web developers had nothing to do with lack of support for cutting edgw APIs. It was because Internet Exploder refused to follow basic web standards and was stuffed it full of proprietary and non-standard rendering quirks.

Nope. IE6 was the most standards-compliant browser out there in 2001. The problem was that it did not move from its 2001 state for many years (development was dropped).

Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated

#276

>Why did developers and software engineers hate IE so much? Because IE was seriously outdated, lacking support for cutting-edge web APIs and technologies enabling the modern websites and web apps we use today. Nonsense. The almost universal contempt for Internet Exploder amongst web developers had nothing to do with lack of support for cutting edgw APIs. It was because Internet Exploder refused to follow basic web st…

I still have to support IE11 and the fact that it doesn't support modern API its one of the reasons I hate it with passion. Something like not supporting css variables is seriously limiting. As second place I'll put the unusable dev tools. Spec compliance is more of a problem for css than js. I concede that with previous IE iteration the problem was much more worse.

I agree, but I will say that if your site doesn't rely on newer CSS features, IE11 is still surprisingly easy to deal with.

A whole lot of cutting-edge JavaScript can be polyfilled/transformed to work on IE11 (automatically in most cases, with something like Babel), and the module/nomodule pattern can stop that polluting your bundles for modern browsers. It also has decent flexbox support (just a few oddities easily worked around IIRC), although its grid implementation is incomplete and uses an older version of the spec that in most cases just isn't worth the effort.

Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The analogy is simple: back in the day devs got sick of IE because it was the one thing holding them back. You can make a site, easily, that looked beautiful on all the other major browsers, but because IE was outdated when it came to standards support, you had to basically spent all your time fighting with it. Safari serves that role today. There are tons of things I'd love to do but can't because they're not suppor…

But that isn't the case. At all. IE wasn't difficult because it was behind the times; it was difficult because it was deliberately different. The 2nd pillar of Microsoft's infamous Embrace, Extend, Extinguish strategy ensured incompatibility, which doubled developer efforts. The idea of IE being purely an "outdated" browser seems to be one perpetuated by young devs reading & misunderstanding old blogposts. The narrat…

Pushing forward on spec implementation before submitting to standards bodies is how the standards bodies want developers to make things. They want a "market of ideas", and only standardize the ideas that win out.

Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The analogy is simple: back in the day devs got sick of IE because it was the one thing holding them back. You can make a site, easily, that looked beautiful on all the other major browsers, but because IE was outdated when it came to standards support, you had to basically spent all your time fighting with it. Safari serves that role today. There are tons of things I'd love to do but can't because they're not suppor…

Safari is not holding back, Safari is just not implementing Google’s PWA (because it doesn’t really make sense on Apple devices where it would be far inferior to native). You can make a beautiful site in Safari and it will work everywhere (I do professionally). Chrome is the new IE (2001 era, when it was cutting edge and pushing proprietary technology) except ActiveX is PWA.

This simply isn't true - offset-path, CSS.registerProperty, there are plenty of instances where non PWA-related features aren't even close to implemented

Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated

#280
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What website requires installation? The ones I use all work perfectly fine just from the web UI with the option to install them?

All websites(with the exception of HN maybe?). Installation doesn't strictly mean putting the website on your home-screen. Whenever you encounter a new website you are required to go through installation process, you can't simply click a link and consume the content anymore. For most websites you need to read and accept the tracking terms and if you are not happy with the default options you need to do custom install…

"Installing a website" is something I might expect my 70-something year old mother to say. Oh brother.
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