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Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

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Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#271

Post by jacquesm »

clairity wrote: post #159
jacquesm wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, well let's just say that coincidentally I had a viral infection that has the exact same symptoms as COVID, has the same long term effects as are reported in many cases of COVID and which coincidentally happened to be timed to match the first wave of that particular pandemic, but according to you it wasn't COVID when it wasn't confirmed as such with a test. Consider the alternative: you would have to come up wi…

that’s being overly invested in the idea that it’s covid rather than realizing that infections of all kinds have long-lasting effects. individually and societally, that leads to a distortion of attention and resources to the wrong things. i.e., partial idiocy, the worst kind, and unfortunately rampant. there is a real opportunity now for medical science to look comparatively at infectious diseases and attack them sys…

Hopefully we don't squander basic respect for our fellow human beings either. Not everything is a science experiment or a thesis. Given that the number of people that died from COVID based on excess mortality where I live is approximately 50% higher than the official figures the chances of a bunch of people having unconfirmed COVID are rather high.

So unless you are going to go out on a limb to suggest a better alternative I suggest you leave well alone.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#272

Post by disabled »

johnchristopher wrote: post #266
disabled wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the recommendation, which is thoughtful. One thing that you may want to keep in mind: Garmin has to follow GDPR, while FitBit (Google) does not. You may not want Google (e.g. YouTube) serving you ads when it knows you are in a very low body battery state, for example.

Why doesn't Google have to follow GDPR in this case ?

Sorry for the confusion: For Americans Google does not have to follow GDPR. Garmin has to follow GDPR worldwide as it is incorporated in Switzerland.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#273

Post by lamontcg »

jacquesm wrote: post #270
lamontcg wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might consider it if insurance puts up a fight but there's no utility in getting a T-cell test just to try to win arguments on the Internet.

Insurance? For what? I did not end up in hospital and where I live medical problems do not end up (normally) as financial problems as well.

Yeah, I assumed you might wind up getting treatment for long COVID and that you lived in the US.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#274

Post by elzbardico »

Retric wrote: post #34
elzbardico wrote: post #27

Self-reported symptoms. And now we will have the litany of hypochondriacs that didn't even got tested for SARS-COV-2 but swear they have some misterious long term viral syndrome that in the real world, if it really exists, is extremely rare. The trash that passes as science nowadays.....

1 in 4 people are not Hypochondriacs. Medical research is used to the way people play up symptoms and this is well above the noise floor.

1 in 4 in what kind of “research”?

Long COVID is mostly a myth, popular in a bubble, but without any hard evidence for it. Any of the few long term effects are not that different from what you see from other viral diseases.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#275

Post by rutherblood »

ModernMech wrote: post #261
rutherblood wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can relate. Been 3 months since I recovered. Sense of smell has recovered definitely but since the past 2-3 weeks I've noticed it's still not fully there. A rare house plant blooming in the night which for everyone at home triggers a strong sweet fragrance which can be sensed even on the second floor, for me it was like a lingering placebo. Additionally, there is this weird stench that permeates everything I eat. I c…

> Additionally, there is this weird stench that permeates everything I eat. I can't explain it, just a kind of smell I've never come across Yes, this is exactly what she describes. The closest she could get to describing it was "cigarettes" when I pressed her, but she really insisted should couldn't even characterize it.

Is she having gastrointestinal problems too? Like digestion issues attimes, weird random pains in the abdomen, around the liver or stomach? I've been facing these since the last 2 months.

Sometimes I wonder how much our sense of smell is connected to the gut microbiome.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#276

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

spookthesunset wrote: post #149
_ykl9 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea why you're getting downvoted Speculation: conflation of his reasonable and factual statement with the ostensibly similar far-right talking point that the cure (social distancing) is worse than the disease.

> far-right talking point Expressing skepticism surrounding the efficiency of social distancing, masks, "non essential business" and all these lockdowns is not a "far right" talking point. None of our response was in any playbook for this level of threat. We threw out all our pandemic planning in a fit on hysteria and panic. To this day we cannot say for certain that lockdowns did anything at all, let alone enough to…

> we cannot say for certain that lockdowns did anything at all

This level of misinformation is no longer rational. You question that not meeting others in person can have an effect? It’s getting close to denying germ theory. Maybe it’s all bad vapors?

Sure, we can’t exactly specify the effect of different measures. But there’s plenty of evidence that they work, collectively. And the only method to come up for evidence regarding measures of this nature is to try them. You can’t do a lockdown study in a lab.

As to negative effects, we know that GDP recovers fast and suicide rates actually didn’t rise, despite constant assertions od the opposite.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#277

Post by ModernMech »

rutherblood wrote: post #275
ModernMech wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Additionally, there is this weird stench that permeates everything I eat. I can't explain it, just a kind of smell I've never come across Yes, this is exactly what she describes. The closest she could get to describing it was "cigarettes" when I pressed her, but she really insisted should couldn't even characterize it.

Is she having gastrointestinal problems too? Like digestion issues attimes, weird random pains in the abdomen, around the liver or stomach? I've been facing these since the last 2 months. Sometimes I wonder how much our sense of smell is connected to the gut microbiome.

Yes but hard to say if they are due to COVID since she’s always had GI issues, which cause her to avoid a lot of food (eggs, milk, fruits).

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#278

Post by timr »

jacquesm wrote: post #265
timr wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you need a control group? We know that typical people don't just randomly get coughs on a daily basis. Because this is science, not a spread in the New York Times. And if you read the link to the paper I cited, you'd see that "typical people" do randomly get these "symptoms" on a regular basis (I'm coughing right now!) And in fact, once you control for this, you find out that some of what you thought was "lo…

There is a certain kind of person who is stuck in their belief and they will do everything they can to ensure that their belief system remains in one piece. They will raise the bar for evidence that contradicts their belief to the point that no such evidence remains, they will lower the bar for evidence that confirms their belief. They will ascribe to figments of the imagination of others when it comes to their perso…

There's also "a certain kind of person" who has no scientific or medical training. They have an emotional connection to the subject, and desperately wants to believe something is true, and therefore willing to grasp at any shred of circumstantial evidence to justify that belief.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#279

Post by timr »

dragontamer wrote: post #259
timr wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you need a control group? We know that typical people don't just randomly get coughs on a daily basis. Because this is science, not a spread in the New York Times. And if you read the link to the paper I cited, you'd see that "typical people" do randomly get these "symptoms" on a regular basis (I'm coughing right now!) And in fact, once you control for this, you find out that some of what you thought was "lo…

> Nope. Again, this is science. Your turn to demonstrate your science. Please, procure a paper that supports your point of view and simultaneously satisfies your requirements. Science is not a black and white issue. There are "cheaper science" (surveys and other "lesser" studies), and there's "expensive science" (10,000+ experiments with control groups). Both are science. But what you're doing isn't science at all. Y…

> Your turn to demonstrate your science

It's not "my science". It's just "science".

The fact that you keep trying to personalize this only underscores the point that you're not coming at this rationally. You're engaged in advocacy, not science.

> Please, procure a paper that supports your point of view and simultaneously satisfies your requirements.

I gave you the one I knew about that comes closest. The fact that there are no papers meeting the criteria for a good study in this area is not an indication that my standards are too high, but that yours are too low.

> But what you're doing isn't science at all. You're just shitting on other people's work without showing what you actually like.

Science is about applying skepticism to questions and demanding evidence. Again, we're not talking about emotional spreads in People Magazine here.

> I'm convinced that the "studies" you want simply don't exist, either on my side of the argument nor on yours.

The studies don't exist. That's exactly the point. And it's not "my side" or "your side" -- I have no attachment to the outcome here. Show me a study that meets the standards I set out and provides evidence for your claim, and I'll believe you. You can't.

If the best you've got is anecdote and low-quality data, then you get my prior belief in your claim, which is that you're probably mistaken.

Re: Burden of post-Covid-19 syndrome and implications for healthcare planning

#280

Post by bb2018 »

dangom wrote: post #151
bb2018 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder if this is proportional to your symptoms/proportional to other ailments. For instance, is someone with Covid (who was on the verge of needing oxygen) more likely to have long term symptoms than someone the same age who got the flu/pneumonia (and was also on the verge of needing oxygen). In other words - is there something unique about Covid? Or is that any disease that sets you back has serious long-term…

The SARS-CoV-2 virus binds to a specific receptor (ACE2) that is expressed in a multitude of different cells in our bodies, most curiously the endothelial cells that line up your vessels. Some hypothesis suggest that the disruption of the systems associated with ACE2 is what causes downstream effects that lead to symptoms of COVID. By virtue of infecting blood vessels, the virus can cause them to stop functioning pro…

I obviously realize that influenza does not attack the body in the same way with the same receptors - but it obviously attacks the body in its own unique way.

It rarely causes serious health consequences but for the people it does (I've known younger people sent hospital with it) are there long term consequences on the same order of magnitude? It doesn't seem like the data really exists for this.

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