What about the new Delta variant?
87.9% efficacy https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.22.21257658v...
That's for the Indian variant? How does it compare to the previous variants? Is it noticeably worse or similar?
Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
271–280 of 364 posts
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
In theory this is true but in reality half of the US population just isn't smart enough to evaluate such a question and those who are hesitant are virtually exclusively drawn from this portion. This is well highlighted by the fact that the societal and individual risks of avoiding vaccination are so insanely high while the risk of vaccination is virtually insignificant. If I offered you a chance to skip rope or play…
>those who are hesitant are virtually exclusively drawn from this portion. Well, that's complete BS. The list of people expressing concerns about the mRNA / spike protein based injections includes the inventor of the PCR test (Nobel Prize winner), the guy who invented Ivermectin (Nobel Prize winner), the guy credited with inventing mRNA vaccines, the guy who discovered that HIV causes AIDS (another Nobel Prize winner…
Links to scientific research by those fellows or research cited by them.
Virtually doesn't mean entirely. You can find strict creationist biologists too if you ask enough despite it being a crank view that inherently discredits it's holder.
It doesn't mean biologists give substantial credence to creationism. 99.9% of vaccine hesitant are intellectually limited or letting their politics overrule their intellect.
0.1% are people with relevant expertise who are wrong.
If you want to know what experts of a particular stripe think about a technical topic you identify the most qualified via their peers and accomplishments and synthesize a theory of how the world appears to work from the points of contention and consensus.
What you do not do is cherry pick from the minority who support your pre chosen view and declare your prior bias justified. You might as well have skipped a step and just patted yourself on the back and put in earplugs as it would leave you more time to recline in the shade.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you apply this same argument to taxes/SSNs, drivers licenses[+], and other existing centralized systems in the US? +: Let's be honest, driver's licenses are practically required and you attract extra scrutiny if you don't have one.
None of these violate your bodily autonomy.
Nor does a vaccine passport? It only prevents you from lying about a major public health threat.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lack of socialized healthcare? The USA has at least 3 times as many people on government healthcare than the entire population of Canada (Medicare, Medicaid, the VA). The USA has the second- third-largest government-run healthcare system in the world. As a person who lived 20 years in Canada and 14 in the USA, I'll take the USA every day of the week--and for the past year I've paid for my own health insurance directl…
>shelled out $500, and he had his MRI in less than half an hour. What happens if you're poor and don't have anyone to turn to for the $500? Will it take the same time to get a free MRI as it does in Canada? Can you get it fro free at all in the US? (Real question, I don't know how it works and am curious)
It's unfortunately impossible to answer this question as it relies on a number of factors. If you are now in the military you're going to have an easy time through tricare - if you were previously in the military you should be able to get an MRI for free from the VA, but you may have an easier time utilizing medicaid or, if you're old enough to qualify, medicare. Additionally, if you're considering getting coverage through medicaid there are generally a wide number of requirements for eligibility that can range from trivial (I was automatically enrolled in green mountain care when I was an out of work student in VT) to extremely onerous work seeking requirements in some southern states. Medicare, if you're old enough to be eligible, is usually pretty guaranteed but you'll need to be near retirement age to access it.
The TL;DR is that you may be able to get it for free, but there's a very large proportion of the population that fails to qualify for medicaid and also won't have the financial stability to float $500 out of pocket and, if they happened to get one, wouldn't be able to afford any follow up treatment.
But I totally agree that the US system is an absolute breeze if you've got money to spare.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
back in the day it was common sense surgeons washing hands is pointless.
And? That doesn't change that there are still things which are common sense and rooted in basic logic accessible to anyone. That Nature journal article is one of those things.
it was basic logic accessible to anyone that washing hands doesn't matter - it was, after all, just dirt and blood. it couldn't be proven that there was anything bad in dirt and blood.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
None of these violate your bodily autonomy.
can i sue you if i catch covid from you for violating my autonomy? only half joking.
You can try, but to succeed you would essentially have to prove that it came from me and that I all but intentionally infected you. Negligence would require that my actions are not the actions of a prudent person. With 50% of the population not being vaccinated it may be hard to prove what a prudent person would do.
I'm vaccinated and would encourage others to get vaccinated but I am very much against forcing it on anyone.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Large events outside of New York have not had any such vaccine mandates, and have not led to any outbreaks. By the numbers, New York has handled the pandemic worse than any state in the US. I'm not sure we should be holding up any of the measures they've taken or are currently taking as any sort of holy grail.
There is a clear cultural schism on this. When in Arizona, I went to a rodeo that wouldn’t dare check vaccination after a museum fundraiser that required it but didn’t verify. As someone who would like to go to both types of events, a single document would be helpful. If others prefer to constrain themselves, that’s fine. We are discussing privileges, not rights.
If those are privileges, stay home, wear a mask, and get vaccinated. But don't tell others what to do. It will never be tolerated as the law of the land to require that some document be furnished in order to participate in normal society. Unless you're talking about carding someone who wants to drink alcohol or etc, you are absolutely talking about a normal life and freedom and rights.
Doesn't matter if someone dislikes it - it will never be the law of the land here. Basically everywhere I've been including deep blue cities are moving beyond this idea of needing "proof" of something for months now. What you're advocating for is creating two societies.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if true, this novel molecule is not floating around in a body for an entire year waiting to have some side effect. They've been shooting it into people for a year and a half now. If there was something to worry about, it would have been seen. But there are many parts of this vaccine that is shared with previous ones and the mechanics have been tested thoroughly. The science is the same. There's just no credible…
> Even if true, this novel molecule is not floating around in a body for an entire year waiting to have some side effect. They've been shooting it into people for a year and a half now. If there was something to worry about, it would have been seen. There are lots of things we do see and we should worry about. The problem is that we can't tell right away if it's just noise, if it's a potentially rare side-effect. The…
> "the benefits still outweigh the risk"
this is not handwaving, this is the foundation stone of modern medicine.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Traditional vaccines have also been "unreasonably effective" AFAIK not really. I know just about Sinovac and that was significantly worse efficacy than other vaccines. Note that adonovirusvector based vaccines like AstraZeneca one are not 'traditional vaccines' but also rather new tech.
That’s why I put old in quotes. mRNA is also nothing new, just new at this scale. People are just acting like it’s something that was just invented over the last year.
In your comment you implied mRNA is new tech though, you may want to clarify what you meant to say.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm up in Canada where vaccine hesitancy has been almost unheard of[1] and those who refuse to get vaccinated, excepting those that can't for medical reasons, are ostracized for their overtly selfish actions. In other words, those who value individual freedom might want to avoid Canada for its over-boarding groupthink and overtly collectivist mentality.
I actually strongly disagree with this point. America has a very precise definition of individual freedom that I disagree with - it's a big part of why I emigrated. In the US you're absolutely free to die as you wish - in Canada you're free to live a healthy life and do with that life what you may. Socialism and socialized healthcare frequently gets painted as being anti-freedom but I think that the lack of socialize…
> In the US you're absolutely free to die as you wish - in Canada you're free to live a healthy life and do with that life what you may.
...while ostracized for defending your self-interest?
I'm not saying one is strictly better than the other. It's a tradeoff. As they say in New York: "If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere". The corollary of that might be: "If you can't make it here, move to Canada".