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Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

dolphin-emu.org

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Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#271
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why anybody would consider to be at risk if an alternate store, that nobody would be forced to use, and which could even be subject to identical or even better rules, exists. And I'm not even talking about transforming an iPhone into a potentially open computer, but here too the same principle can be applied: if it is optional, it is something more, not less. The UX can be made good enough to actua…

An alternate app store would be a risk for tricking people to download and install all kinds of malware. "Your iPhone is out of date. Tap here to install the latest security tools to stop hackers from stealing your bank account"

Who is to say an alternative App Store wouldn’t have better security than the Apple App Store? Lots of things with terrible privacy and security practices have made it past the mostly automated review process. With a 3rd party paid App Store, you could pay a subscription to ensure that every app is reviewed by a human, doesn’t violate privacy, and is free of malware.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#272
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers And many of us do . I would never buy a locked-down piece of hardware like that. But I don't think it matters either way what either side wants, because it's what Apple wants that matters. They want to keep their walled garden's walls air tight, and there are apparently enough people that are OK living in that garden that it works. I'm positive tha…

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

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Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternate app store would be a risk for tricking people to download and install all kinds of malware. "Your iPhone is out of date. Tap here to install the latest security tools to stop hackers from stealing your bank account"

Who is to say an alternative App Store wouldn’t have better security than the Apple App Store? Lots of things with terrible privacy and security practices have made it past the mostly automated review process. With a 3rd party paid App Store, you could pay a subscription to ensure that every app is reviewed by a human, doesn’t violate privacy, and is free of malware.

Right, but the scammers aren't going to tell you to go there to install your Important Software Update, they're gonna point you towards the store with no restrictions at all, possibly one they run.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

I don't think anyone would mind if Apple offered two -- otherwise identical -- versions of each Iphone: One locked down and one not. Or Iphones could be unlocked by default but you can pay extra to have them permanently locked. People would pay for that if locking down their phones actually provides value to them.

Why would they? It is more work. It is 2 code paths to write, to test and plan for. There is a cost associated with this that will not likely be recovered in any reasonable price difference on the phone versions.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#275
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1 doesn't smoke Intel chips just because it's ARM - the latest chips from Broadcom and Samsung don't even come close. The M1 is good because it's good.

That's what I'm a little confused about. It isn't just because it is RISC, it's Apple magic? It seems weird that you can emulate other instruction sets with RISC underneath and get the performance they do. I assumed if you could recompile to the native instruction set you would get a really optimized app, but it seems like the interesting work always operates at a different layer. Fascinating stuff.

I am absolutely not an expert on microarchitecture, but I’ve had the same questions and tried my best to figure out answers. Here’s my understanding of the situation:

> It isn't just because it is RISC, it's Apple magic?

It’s both. We’ve known for decades that RISC was the “right” design, but x86 was so far ahead of everyone else that switching architectures was completely infeasible (even Intel themselves tried and failed with Itanium). It would have taken years to design a new CPU core that could match existing x86 designs, and breaking backwards compatibility is a non-starter in the Windows world. So we ended up with a 20-year-long status quo where ARM dominated the embedded world (due to its simplicity and efficiency) and x86 dominated the desktop world due to its market position.

However, with Apple, all the stars lined up perfectly for them to be able to pull off this transition in a way that no other company was able to accomplish.

- Apple sells both PCs and smartphones, and the smartphone market gave them a reason to justify spending 10 years and billions of dollars on a high-performance ARM core. The A series slowly evolved from a regular smartphone processor, into a high-end smartphone processor, and then into a desktop-class processor in a smartphone.

- Apple (co-)founded ARM, giving them a huge amount of control over the architecture. IIRC they had a ton of influence on the design of AArch64 and beat ARM’s own chips to market by a year.

- Intel’s troubles lately have given Apple a reason to look for an alternative source of processors.

- Apple’s vertical integration of hardware and software means they can transition the entire stack at once, and they don’t have to coordinate with OEMs.

- Apple does not have to worry about backwards compatibility very much compared to a Windows-based manufacturer. Apple has a history of successfully pulling off several architecture transitions, and all the software infrastructure was still in place to support another one. Mac users also tend to be less reliant on legacy or enterprise software.

> It seems weird that you can emulate other instruction sets with RISC underneath and get the performance they do.

As far as I understand it, the only major distinction between RISC and CISC is in the instruction decoder. CISC processors do not typically have any more advanced “hardware acceleration” or special-purpose instructions; the distinction between CISC and RISC is whether you support advanced addressing modes and prefix bytes that let you cram multiple hardware operations into a single software instruction.

For instance, on x86 you can write an instruction like ‘ADD [rax + 0x1234 + 8*rbx], rcx’. In one instruction you’ve performed a multi-step address calculation with two registers, read from memory, added a third register, and written the result back to memory. Whereas on a RISC, you would have to express the individual steps as 4 or 5 separate instructions.

Crucially, you don’t have to do any more actual hardware operations to execute the 4 or 5 RISC as compared to the one CISC instruction. All modern processors convert the incoming instruction stream into a RISCy microcode anyway, so the only performance difference between the two is how much work the processor has to spend decoding instructions. x86 requires a very complex decoder that is difficult to parallelize, whereas ARM uses a much more modern instruction set (AArch64 was designed in 2012) that is designed to maximize decoder throughput.

So this helps us understand why Apple can emulate x86 code so efficiently: the JIT/AOT translator is essentially just running the expensive x86 decode stage ahead of time and converting it to a RISC instruction stream that is easier for a processor to digest. You’re right, though, that native code can always be more tightly optimized since the compiler knows much more about the program than the JIT does and can produce code bettor tailored to the quirks and features of the target processor.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still dont get how people pretend Apple cares about privacy. By default Apple devices phone home and collect data on you, and this is not optional, and they will hand that data to law enforcement. They also have the ability to change their data handling policieson a whim since there is nobody holding them accountable. THIS IS NOT PRIVACY. Not that windows or android devices are better as they come out of the box, b…

This is a lot of FUD. Yes, Apple devices do collect some data and phone it home (mostly diagnostic, and iCloud, both of which can be turned off). However, unlike their competitors, Apple does not sell this data to advertisers. And they are just as likely to refuse to work with law enforcement as they are likely to cooperate. How many times has LE demanded that Apple break the encryption on the iPhone of a crime suspe…

Apple could start selling ads tomorrow and simply change the terms of service, which they have a right to. In that case the last N years of data they have been collecting on you is fair game to sell to third parties.

Is Google a worse example, sure. But plenty of us have been around long enough to remember when Google was restructured into Alphabet and the “Don’t be evil” motto was wiped from their corporate code of conduct. All it takes is a new CEO or a change of leadership and all of these corporate platitudes aren’t worth the paper they are printed on.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. I think they might just survive without your business. And pretty sure it demonstrates that their formula of security and privacy over openness is the right one for them.

> Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. > I think they might just survive without your business. The parent post makes some the argument that the restrictive nature of iOS makes it unappealing to certain users. You counter that with a discussion-ending argument about how much money Apple makes. Not everything that makes billions of dollars is immune to criticism. Especially since Apple markets the iPad…

We to be fair their argument is 100% valid. Apple is very successful in selling their HW as is without the feature certain users want. The reality is that adding that feature would have a great deal of cost behind it for very little growth on their already impressive numbers. Everyone here on HN likes to criticize Apple for not allowing 3rd party stores, but in general wants their HW. This community is self selecting for the tech people so they think this is reasonable. My wife and kid and my friends that are not in tech do not care about 3rd party at all, and when I have asked them the answer is "I buy Apple because it just works and I do not have to think about it. That would add complexity I do not want!" This is Apples market, not HN were this is the norm:

Me: "Great, do not buy an Apple protect." HN: "But I like their HW." Me: "Well then you have to deal with their SW restrictions." HN: "But I do not want to, why cannot they not just do this for me, it's just SW."

Wash, rinse, repeat on every story on AppleHW. I would really love to be able to read the comments on the interesting aspect of the story without 80% of the comments going back to this debate for once.

Apple is NOT a monopoly, therefor you cannot force them to change this. You can buy another device that allows you to install 3rd party stuff. Do that.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#278
I wonder if there are any gains to be had on the M1 because it uses shared memory between the CPU and GPU - much like the actual Gamecube architecture.

From reading this blog, Gamecube games often made heavy usage of the memory-sharing capability of the hardware - which made emulation on PCs a performance challenge.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#279
post #18

The real challenge is running F-Zero GX. I’d love to see some benchmarks for this game — the hardest game to emulate.

Why’s it hard to emulate that game in particular?

The heated air effect on the „Sand Ocean“ course seems to make the emulator sweat. My 2013 Intel Core i7 with HD Graphics can’t render that without massive slow down.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I find this hard to believe, because if this was true, why doesn’t Android have a bunch of unique apps that couldn’t exist on iPhone? Yes, Android does have some apps that can’t exist on iPhone, but I wouldn’t say that most people find them compelling or care about them. Those that do already have Android.

Android hardware is not very compelling as of late. Nor are the users, to be entirely honest.

I assume this is meant as a joke but it is in very poor taste
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