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Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

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Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#271

Post by cannabis_sam »

struxure wrote: post #236
baybal2 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know anything. Few hundred people paid with their lives for speaking their mind. Either killed in the most gruesome way, or just customarily disappeared. There are at least a hundred something of journalists only who were murdered. It's a brutal KGB-mafia dictatorship trying its best masquerading as a normal country. You will always see Russian diplomats on every high nosed UN, and OSCE talkshop on human ri…

The question was if people (I assumed a regular folk, not journalists and opposition) are allowed to make jokes about the government, and I answered to that. Of course I know that Russia has no traces of democracy left and I am aware how Russia targets high-profile people, including journalists. You should be more reserved before telling people they don't know anything.

No, the question was:

> Do you see it headed towards China, where no internal criticism is allowed?

But if you’re a russian opposed to Putin you cant’t really answer that on a western-run online platform.. (unless you’re considered insignificant enough by the Russian government, so you can safely be ignored of course)

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#272

Post by oytis »

toyg wrote: post #270
oytis wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are examples of unsuccessful wars, although we don't know how many times the possibility of American intervention prevented USSR from starting theirs. Korean war was partially successful though, the whole Korea could look like North Korea if US didn't intervene

I think the US has demonstrated enough "possibility of intervention" since 1991, wouldn't you agree...? Kuwait is "free" but Iraq is lost to Iran, Afghanistan and Rwanda are still a mess. Guns don't solve everything.

I would consider intervention in Yugoslavia pretty successful actually, instead of genocidal nationalist dictatorship we have a couple of democracies - not without their problems, but still no comparison to Milosevic regime.

Interventions in Iraq, Lybia and Syria can be seen as failures if we consider the bold goal to bring democracy to the Middle East. But at least these countries don't attack other countries any more - ISIS as evil as it is can't cause as much harm as these could.

In any case I guess with Eastern Europe it's more likely to work like it did in Yugoslavia than in Middle East. Belarus has really strong civil society, all they are missing is really some guns.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#273

Post by rsynnott »

thinkingemote wrote: post #31
golergka wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European diplomats being "strongly concerned" have long become a running joke here in Russia: https://twitter.com/ISEUConcerned I sincerely hope that this statement finally gets backed up by some decisive action that can put real pressure on these dictators, but I don't get my hopes up.

I know that people can joke about the west in Russia but are people allowed to make jokes about their own government in Russia and in the associated eastern european states? Is it like China yet? I'm guessing not as there's no visible list of banned words and phrases, but we don't see (in HN) much criticism of Russia, Belarus from there, just attacks on the hypocrisy of the West. Do you see it headed towards China, w…

While criticism is legal, it does significantly increase your chances of falling out a window, if you're in a prominent position. Very careless, these Kremlin critics.

Interestingly, critics of repressive regimes exhibit _themed_ carelessness; those who were a bit too open in Apartheid South Africa fell down _stairs_, instead.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#274

Post by xvilka »

redleader55 wrote: post #75
intricatedetail wrote: post #54

Nothing material is going happen as Germany needs that gas pipe. It's obvious from the news that this hijack was done together with Russia.

Germany insistence on closing nuclear power plants is doing Europe a lot of harm. It opens up one of the great powers of Europe to be controlled by Russia.

France is much smarter in this regard. They are pushing nuclear and successful in that. This is why Germany buys electricity from them.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#276

Post by usr1106 »

toyg wrote: post #109
ljf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-charge-foreign-air... Yes it costs to fly through a country's airspace.

A good policy, were the European Council agree on a half-decent response, would be to directly reimburse any airline for the extra costs of flying around Belarusian airspace. At that point even the Ryanair scum would probably agree to the detour.

Passengers can pay their tickets. If the flight path is a bit longer because of regulations they pay a bit more. No tax money needed for this.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#277

Post by petre »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #226
ceejayoz wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belarus probably serves as a decent example.

Belarus aside, which ones? Because I can't think of any. Seriously, it's been over thirty years since the end of Cold War and people still think there are some eastern European states associated with Russia... Almost all of them are in the EU now with the notable exception of Ukraine which is in a state of de facto war with Russia. Even Lukashenko has a bitter-sweet relationship with Putin.

There's still Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaidjan. Technically, the Caucasus region is still in Europe.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#278

Post by EdTsft »

elliekelly wrote: post #183
mikro2nd wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so. Sanctions can be devastatingly effective applied by a significant majority of the world over a length of time. Sanctions were the instrument that brought an end to the Apartheid regime in South Africa: sanctions, having brought the South African economy to its knees, were a key factor in forcing the ruling regime to the negotiating table. Yes, in some fairytale world the ruling National Party could have conti…

What about Cuba? North Korea? Iran? They’ve been sanctioned for decades with devastating human consequences and little to no sign of those sanctions spurring any meaningful change.

Only the US sanctioned Cuba and while it was pretty harmful, they were still able to trade with most other countries. North Korea has China right next door as a big trade partner, and can trade with many non-US countries as well. As for Iran, from what I can tell UN sanctions really only started to ramp up in the 2010s and those did have an effect in getting Iran to suspend its nuclear program.

Edit: But to be clear, I think the US sanctions on Cuba are gratuitous and cruel. Cuba is not some rogue state and there are many worse dictatorships that aren't sanctioned. However, I think it reinforces the point that "sanctions can be devastatingly effective applied by a significant majority of the world" because in the Cuba case the rest of the world didn't agree.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#279

Post by joiewjf »

Germans: Netherland and Ireland must raise taxes, because it hits German businesses if your taxes are too low!!

Also Germans: North Stream 2 should not concern other countries. It is our internal business.

So, Germans thinks that they can push their agenda to other countries, but no other country can do the same to Germany? Double standards and very arrogant.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#280

Post by usr1106 »

What hasn't been mentioned at all is that Belavia/Minsk is a major corona restriction loophole. Last year they massively expanded their traffic to transport people via Minsk if more direct flights were not available. Obiviously money was more important than public safety . Lukashenka has stated that Wodka helps against Covid-19.

Whether that still holds this year I don't know. I have not studied flight schedules for a while.

If yes forbidding Belavia to land in EU countries might have an even bigger effect than usual.

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