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Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#271

Post by Wolfenstein98k »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #251
gumby wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who grew up in France (well, except for her kitchen which was in Belgium); she went to school in Belgium, crossing the border (which in those days had a gate) twice each day. I just imagine the guards opening the gate for a little girl with a school satchel. The bollards which held the gate are still there.

I grew up on the border of France and Switzerland. My dad worked at CERN in Switzerland, was paid in Swiss francs, and had Swiss health insurance. Houses were cheaper in France, so they live in the Pays de Gex and crossed the border every day. I was born in Switzerland. I was smuggled to France when I was a few days old so my parents could take me home. I got a passport a few months later, with a baby photo. I went t…

Wonderful story, thanks for sharing!!

Good luck finding your home.

I am Australian and can recommend Australia wholeheartedly, although I know we make immigration thoroughly difficult.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#272

Post by peterburkimsher »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #271
peterburkimsher wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up on the border of France and Switzerland. My dad worked at CERN in Switzerland, was paid in Swiss francs, and had Swiss health insurance. Houses were cheaper in France, so they live in the Pays de Gex and crossed the border every day. I was born in Switzerland. I was smuggled to France when I was a few days old so my parents could take me home. I got a passport a few months later, with a baby photo. I went t…

Wonderful story, thanks for sharing!! Good luck finding your home. I am Australian and can recommend Australia wholeheartedly, although I know we make immigration thoroughly difficult.

My girlfriend went to Australia on Working Holiday for 2 years, and enjoyed it a lot. Personally I didn't like needing to have a Resident Return Visa, or losing PR after living overseas. So I preferred New Zealand, and now I'm working at Fisher & Paykel Healthcare, I feel quite settled here for the foreseeable future. I'll definitely come to visit though!

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#273

Post by names_are_hard »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #264
taejo wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't most countries grant citizenship to children born on their territory who aren't eligible for any other citizenship? I've heard of cases where the children had a hard time proving that to be the case (the embassy of the parents' state of citizenship would neither grant citizenship nor certify non-citizenship) but I didn't realise one could be completely ineligible for any citizenship from birth in a western coun…

If they're not eligible for any other citizenship, you're right, I would be able to apply for them to have a special grant of nationality. However, I would like me, a future wife, and potential future children to all have the right to live in the same country. If those kids had a Swiss passport, but my visa to Switzerland got denied, I'd end up separated from them. This is happening to many British families from the…

> As a foreigner, there's a conflict of interest - I'd rather not have children be forced to kill me.

I'm not sure how seriously you meant this, but that seems a little exaggerated. If your kids are drafted into service in another Western country than you hold citizenship, the odds that they would find themselves fighting a war against your country are slim. And even if it does happen, they'd likely find themselves transferred or exempted on account of a parent being one of the enemy.

On top of that, there are an abundance of non-combat roles for draftees - here in Israel you can spend your mandatory service programming computers, driving or fixing trucks, coordinating international communication with countries that are only semi-friendly (maybe that of your parents, since you speak the language!), stapling papers together with no apparent purpose other than government bureaucracy, supervising a kitchen, investigating higher-ups in the military for fraud and corruption (internal police), diffusing bombs, helping with Covid testing/ vaccine logistics, or singing in a choir. (I have met people who did most all of those things. If you don't want to kill people you have many other options.)

On some level, any participation in the organization is indirectly supporting the war effort, but so is paying taxes. Would you be against your children paying taxes to a country other than your own?

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#274

Post by peterburkimsher »

names_are_hard wrote: post #273
peterburkimsher wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're not eligible for any other citizenship, you're right, I would be able to apply for them to have a special grant of nationality. However, I would like me, a future wife, and potential future children to all have the right to live in the same country. If those kids had a Swiss passport, but my visa to Switzerland got denied, I'd end up separated from them. This is happening to many British families from the…

> As a foreigner, there's a conflict of interest - I'd rather not have children be forced to kill me. I'm not sure how seriously you meant this, but that seems a little exaggerated. If your kids are drafted into service in another Western country than you hold citizenship, the odds that they would find themselves fighting a war against your country are slim. And even if it does happen, they'd likely find themselves t…

For Switzerland that position may be tenable, but not for Taiwan. I fear that there could be a war within the lifetime of my potential future children, and I want nothing to do with it.

Many other students in the Engineering department of Lancaster University, where I studied, went to work for BAE Systems, a defence contractor and major local employer. I joined protest marches against them. I'm still involved in activism, most recently last Saturday in a solidarity march for Myanmar.

Military service does more than just train violence, it also takes away peoples' youth (which could be spent in Erasmus or Working Holiday), causes relationships to become long-distance and often break up, and creates a sense of national pride (which is contrary to the international views of the EU and UN that I support). The violence may also not be directed towards others: there is a very high suicide rate within the military. I can say that if I'm ordered to shoot someone else, I'd rather shoot myself.

I suggest you read this poem, 5 Ways To Kill A Man - Edwin Brock, and consider how the distance between a murderer and the victim becomes larger through weapons technology, the more devastating the results can be. Supporting the military through R&D is not an acceptable alternative.

https://poetryarchive.org/poem/five-ways-kill-man/

Alternative service for conscientious objectors is sometimes available, but many of the issues above also apply to the police service, and I may not have the freedom to choose ambulance/fire service instead. I'd rather run away than fight, so I've chosen to run to the ends of the earth in NZ.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#275

Post by cinntaile »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #269
cinntaile wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I wrote. The original comment received a question "Do you speak both languages natively?". While not aimed at me, I addressed it for the general case. People aren't brought up with both languages and will not have a native understanding of both. 6 years of at most 3 to 5 hours a week of French in high school don't get you to native level. I don't doubt at all that it's sufficient for your needs, but the b…

I just said that i don't have any issues while working or meeting people. If that's the bar, then i reached it. No?

Let me try and rephrase it. Is your command of French as good as your command of Dutch? If yes then you have reached the native level bar, if not then you haven't.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#277

Post by gumby »

nitendoraku wrote: post #255
peterburkimsher wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up on the border of France and Switzerland. My dad worked at CERN in Switzerland, was paid in Swiss francs, and had Swiss health insurance. Houses were cheaper in France, so they live in the Pays de Gex and crossed the border every day. I was born in Switzerland. I was smuggled to France when I was a few days old so my parents could take me home. I got a passport a few months later, with a baby photo. I went t…

Presumably if you didn't achieve residency elsewhere any potential wife would have some status which could be passed onto the kids?

In some countries nationality status can only be passed through paternity, not maternity.

There might still be some countries that require that a child be born physically within the country as well, though I don’t track it.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#278

Post by names_are_hard »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #274
names_are_hard wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a foreigner, there's a conflict of interest - I'd rather not have children be forced to kill me. I'm not sure how seriously you meant this, but that seems a little exaggerated. If your kids are drafted into service in another Western country than you hold citizenship, the odds that they would find themselves fighting a war against your country are slim. And even if it does happen, they'd likely find themselves t…

For Switzerland that position may be tenable, but not for Taiwan. I fear that there could be a war within the lifetime of my potential future children, and I want nothing to do with it. Many other students in the Engineering department of Lancaster University, where I studied, went to work for BAE Systems, a defence contractor and major local employer. I joined protest marches against them. I'm still involved in acti…

Your points about the harm mandatory conscription inflicts upon citizens are valid.

And I agree that if you're against war, you should not voluntarily go work for a defense contractor.

But i think if you're drafted the calculus is different. Would you conscientiously object to paying taxes in a country fighting a war? How is mandatory non-combat service (say kitchen work) different from funding the military via taxes?

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#279

Post by baruchel »

HWR_14 wrote: post #239
gumby wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who grew up in France (well, except for her kitchen which was in Belgium); she went to school in Belgium, crossing the border (which in those days had a gate) twice each day. I just imagine the guards opening the gate for a little girl with a school satchel. The bollards which held the gate are still there.

If crossing the border became sufficiently difficult, I guess they could have installed a back/side door in the kitchen.

I think remembering something like that in Hannah Arendt's biography, but I couldn't tell more... Maybe something about leaving Germany by leaving an house through such a door in the opposite side.

Re: Belgian farmer accidentally moves French border

#280

Post by HWR_14 »

secfirstmd wrote: post #267
HWR_14 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If crossing the border became sufficiently difficult, I guess they could have installed a back/side door in the kitchen.

There are farms in Ireland on both sides of the border. Imagine kicking your GAA ball over to the other side of the garden and you switch countries. A smugglers paradise over the last 100 years.

What's a GAA ball?
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