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Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

businessinsider.com

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Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#271

Post by croutonwagon »

notdonspaulding wrote: post #14

What people say they will do when there's no cost associated with an action and what people will actually do once a cost IS associated with the same action are frequently 2 different things. Bob Lutz, in his self-aggrandizing book "Gutz", describes the initial phase of an automobile design project where a survey is conducted asking respondents whether they would prefer a vehicle with heated cupholders. It turned out…

Google workers probably do have other options. Maybe not as financially lucritive but they should be able to find work.

I have had people threaten to quit as we transition back to the office. These are tier 1 support people. I dont expect Ill have any no-call no-shows monday though.

We also have people that have straight up MOVED to other cities (or in one case, refused to move to our city despite it being a condition of employment).

I'm curious how those will play out.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#272

Post by hnnnnnnng »

throwaways885 wrote: post #246
hnnnnnnng wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannot write code is very different from cannot write code on a whiteboard to solve a difficult problem in a limited amount of time in a stressful setting where you constantly have to keep talking and explaining what you are doing and cannot pause to think.

I know that's a popular trope, but I really mean the 'cannot code' crowd. They are separate groups.

I don't understand how cannot code would even hold a job for more than a month.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#273

Post by NeverFade »

lhorie wrote: post #219
NeverFade wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are these employees "pampered"? They found they enjoy working from home, so they prefer to keep doing that, and if Google doesn't oblige them, they'll start shopping among the many companies that currently do. The free market at work.

According to the blog post I mentioned, before WFH, Google apparently used to go out of its way to literally pamper engineers, with things like fancy cafeteria offerings, laundry services, massages, etc. I think it's important to keep in mind that when some people's complaints are on the level of "ugh, sushi again?", that their levels of entitlement may be a bit uncalibrated from the reality of how other companies tr…

The pseudo-moral judgement on Google's relations with its employees is out of place.

Google provides certain benefits to its employees, not out of the kindness of its heart or out of moral consideration, but because business analysis has determined it's in Google's own benefit to do so. To make itself more attractive, build up a prestigious brand as an employer, keep people working longer hours, etc.

The moment they determine it's no longer in their interest to provide you with these benefits - they'll fire you.

So let's stop pretending one party or the other here is acting on some moral basis. This is just business.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#274

Post by sam0x17 »

wfhbata wrote: post #250
sam0x17 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. I worked for the DoD for a few years and it's definitely a good job to e.g. settle down and have a family and work for 50 years at with good job security, benefits, etc.

I moved too from DoD to FANG, and I’m not sure how you can say this with a straight face. Nothing FANG does on its worst day is comparable to what DoD does on its best day. That’s not to say the DoD is inherently evil from the bottom up. It’s just that the things activists love to hate about FANG (potentially contributing to border control, selling technologies to foreign governments, data collection), the DoD does t…

Yeah that's very true for a large portion of the DoD. In my case I was doing theoretical research that was all getting published and pushing the AI field forward. People doing applied research get their stuff used for all sorts of unsavory stuff though.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#275

Post by lhorie »

NeverFade wrote: post #273
lhorie wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the blog post I mentioned, before WFH, Google apparently used to go out of its way to literally pamper engineers, with things like fancy cafeteria offerings, laundry services, massages, etc. I think it's important to keep in mind that when some people's complaints are on the level of "ugh, sushi again?", that their levels of entitlement may be a bit uncalibrated from the reality of how other companies tr…

The pseudo-moral judgement on Google's relations with its employees is out of place. Google provides certain benefits to its employees, not out of the kindness of its heart or out of moral consideration, but because business analysis has determined it's in Google's own benefit to do so. To make itself more attractive, build up a prestigious brand as an employer, keep people working longer hours, etc. The moment they…

For the record, I didn't mean to imply any sort of moral judgment about Google itself, I was merely relating facts about Google perks and reports of how some employees reacted to them. The point, in fact, is mostly about the employees, who have often been characterized as out-of-touch with the workings of the world outside Google.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#276

Post by Agingcoder »

oblio wrote: post #226
mLuby wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has been experiencing normal remote work during the pandemic. Normal remote work lets you go out and do fun stuff with friends after hours (which you have more of with no commute), spend more time with your kids (who have been at school for most of the day), or even explore other cities or countries (if you have that kind of remote arrangement). All the pandemic has shown us is basically all knowledge work can…

> Normal remote work lets you go out and do fun stuff with friends after hours (which you have more of with no commute), spend more time with your kids (who have been at school for most of the day), or even explore other cities or countries (if you have that kind of remote arrangement). Some people enjoy socializing at work. > All the pandemic has shown us is basically all knowledge work can be done remotely, and mos…

>Some people enjoy socializing at work.

I do. I have small children, don't have a lot of time in the evenings, so work is my main social meeting place (granted, there are weekends with friends, but weekdays are much harder).

During the day, I want to talk to real, physical people, have lunch or coffee with them (probably a cultural thing), and talk about things. I sorely miss it.

While I understand that some people can cope with skyping people all day long 5 days a week and have no physical interactions, I find it incredibly wearing in the long run, and am not sure that most people can. It's a bit like comparing facebook and going to a cafe with friends : sure, both allow social interactions, but the quality of said interactions is vastly different with the remote ones fundamentally lacking.

I'd happily have a day of wfh per week though - perfect for uninterrupted, focused work!

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#277

Post by carstenhag »

capableweb wrote: post #158
wfhbata wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we’re making that comparison, absolutely. Both are in the ads business, but I get actual utility from one company’s products and the other company’s products make me feel worse at the end of the day. I realize that many people love social media and derive happiness from FB, but it’s just not the case for me and the main reason I couldn’t work there.

> If we’re making that comparison, absolutely. Both are in the ads business, but I get actual utility from one company’s products and the other company’s products make me feel worse at the end of the day. I wish I could know which company is which by your comment, but I can't, any could be in any place here.

It's pretty clear that Google is the one with useful and revolutionary products (Android, Maps, Earth, YouTube, Gmail, Google Pay) while Facebook is basically only useful for groups nowadays or for Instagram (is that really useful?) and WhatsApp (which they bought and introduced stories on. Wohoo. Innovative.)

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#278

Post by Jabbles »

artembugara wrote: post #264
Jabbles wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, was there some thought behind that or did you just pick a number that sounded nice?

I kind of estimated. But, not really feel comfortable to share my calcs. Google for what is the cost for an average US business is to simply replace an employee. You might be surprised.

OK, I literally Googled "cost for an average US business is to simply replace an employee":

Thirty case studies taken from the 11 most-relevant research papers on the costs of employee turnover demonstrate that it costs businesses about one-fifth of a worker’s salary to replace that worker.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/reports/2012...

So... did you mean $100,000?

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#279

Post by hobos_delight »

sam0x17 wrote: post #113
sriram_sun wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GOOG folks, FB is recruiting stressing on "remote". Call a recruiter today!

No FANG company has good work culture or good work/life balance anymore, and all are entangled in some morally questionable project or another. Go work for a startup.

I left GOOG a year ago to join MSFT, both have excellent work-life balance.

I also spent 5 years at a well known startup that went public - I think I averaged nearly 12 hours a day over the 5 years there.

In my experience and from a lot of people I talk to, work-life balance is much better at a large Corp than a startup.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#280

Post by azemetre »

wombat-man wrote: post #270
azemetre wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Google even good at retaining employees? The average tenure appears to be 1 to 2 years. [1] [2] [3] Hardly enough time to even know the impact and costs of what you developed and shipped. Kind of makes you wonder what type of work force you're creating when a large percentage of them are constantly leaving. Maybe for ICs this isn't a concern compared to Directors, VPs, or maybe Staff SEs? [1] https://www.payscale.…

wow every year? I'm doing every 2-3 which I was worried would be too often.

It's never hurt me, at least IME. I still get recruiters from Amazon, Facebook, Apple, WayFair, and HubSpot hounding once every few months. I think my only skills that stand out are a11y and data viz. A11y seems to be in a real demand as of the last two years, maybe that keeps me in the running? IDK.

I figured people will always need devs and people really blow the "job hopper" thing out of proportion. Every job hopper I know makes a lot of money and they never struggled to find jobs. If anything they seem to have the best jobs from what I see.

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