CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming • Hacker News Board

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#271

Post by bko » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #224

bko wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what the point of your comment is. There is a need to have a medium of exchange for trade. Barter has its limitations. For all of history, people have created new forms of money for exchange. The primary characteristics you would need is scarcity, clear ownership, transferability and fungibility. Gold serves this purpose, and Bitcoin even more so. The fact that gold is a shiny pebble is not adding anythi…

Neither gold nor bitcoin are particularly good for the purpose you are suggesting -- that's why gold was replaced with fiat currency. Because fiat currency was better. Bitcoin chasing after gold's position is unfortunate because of course, fiat is better than gold. The characteristics you need for a medium of exchange are: - fungibility. - the ability to hold its value for exactly as long as you need to hold onto it.…

The first use of gold as an exchange was 550 BC.

Our fiat money has been around since the 1970s with staggering blowups

Come back to me on 2500 years and we'll see who has the better track record.

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#272

Post by RealityVoid » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

loceng wrote: post #235

RealityVoid wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My stance is: forget about this "blockchain" rhetoric thing. What was interesting for cryptocurrencies was the ability of producing scarce, unique, digital assets. That was groundbreaking. Then other cryptocurrencies expanded on that. Write only data structures themselves are not new and not that valuable on their own. But the interesting thing is the decentralized, trustless structures it enables. And just pinning t…

Give me a blockchain that isn't inherently structured like MLM-Ponzi schemes (and unbiased people who use it not claiming the contrary) and then we're talking. Likewise, I'd suggest that pinning the problems you suggest are solved with "decentralized, trustless structures" - ignores the fact of reality, the physical world and real trust networks, centralized organizations, that reflect the state of society; Bitcoin e…

> but attempting to circumvent and ignore the positives of institutions is a bad idea.

I mean, maybe? I did try to qualify with "some good, some bad", and I am certain some are bad, I'm not some idealist trying to sell you something. It just _does_ enable the possibility of circumventing institutions, and it will keep doing so, no stopping it, IMO.

> Give me a blockchain that isn't inherently structured like MLM-Ponzi schemes

Depending on your definition of "MLM-Ponzi schemes", it could be that the whole of human society might fall under it. Besides, I did mention I am not too fond of the "blockchain" name and think cryptocurrency is much more apt.

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#273

Post by Alupis » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

loceng wrote: post #210

Alupis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what has changed is we now have CEO's of publically traded companies openly and brazenly participating in crypto-currency pump-n-dump schemes[1] because they are currently unregulated markets. Now, with major publically traded companies buying up other crypto-currencies, seemingly speculating on their rise in value, we may have a problem that compels some government agency to step in and ensure these organizati…

Elon doesn't have to do anything for a pump and dump to occur - unless Tesla buying somehow becomes considered a pump action; if more gullible people or "amateur investors" buy into Bitcoin driving up the price because of whatever reasons, it's not Elon's responsibility to protect them - that is government and the SEC's role. Elon's said "Bitcoin is almost as much bs as fiat money" - so he likely doesn't see that as…

Perhaps you're right about Bitcoin, but Elon's messaging on Doge Coin was indisputably a Pump-n-Dump scheme. He even egged the SEC to investigate him[1].

Which reinforces my point - actions like this, by today's Tycoons and ultra-wealthy, will usher in a new age of crypto regulations since it is indeed the little guy being hurt by all this.

[1] https://markets.businessinsider.com/currencies/news/elon-mus...

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#274

Post by arcticbull » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:27 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #271

arcticbull wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither gold nor bitcoin are particularly good for the purpose you are suggesting -- that's why gold was replaced with fiat currency. Because fiat currency was better. Bitcoin chasing after gold's position is unfortunate because of course, fiat is better than gold. The characteristics you need for a medium of exchange are: - fungibility. - the ability to hold its value for exactly as long as you need to hold onto it.…

The first use of gold as an exchange was 550 BC. Our fiat money has been around since the 1970s with staggering blowups Come back to me on 2500 years and we'll see who has the better track record.

Generally speaking we don't need to wait as long as the previous iteration existed to prove the new generation is successful.

For instance, I think it's fair to say e-mail is a success, even though the first postal system was established under Cryus the Great in 550 BCE in Persia. The first e-mail was sent in 1971. Are you saying we won't be able to declare victory on e-mail until the year 4492?

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#275

Post by RealityVoid » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

rspeele wrote: post #241

Just as a fun hypothetical to think about... an effective way to crack down on cryptocurrencies would be to do it under the table. Don't make any official policy about crypto other than recommending that US citizens don't invest in it. Attack the crypto ecosystem the way they attacked Iranian centrifuges. The damage is done by the CIA and NSA, not the SEC and FBI. The goal is not to make it impossible to use crypto b…

So just... like... what scammers are currently doing?

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#276

Post by throwaway6734 » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

RealityVoid wrote: post #208

throwaway6734 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or make it illegal and have the NSA directly attack the compute used to secure it

Hah! :)) So naive. No way this is possible. Attacking compute used to secure it means attacking a whole lot of machines. And the people near those machines will patch them. An you need to attack 51% of them at the same time. Even if you manage to do a 2x spend, they will live with it and patch the stuff and people will still use it. Because what is a couple of 2x somewhere along the way compared to the rest of the bl…

That's assuming that they couldn't attack cooling infrastructure to fry the chips or the fabs making the asics. Also, enough chaos would surely have an impact on the price.

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#277

Post by noxer » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

john_moscow wrote: post #233

noxer wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backed by crypto means for every stablecoin worth 1 USD someone has locked away for example 1.5 USD in crypto. Whoever locked the crypto away and created the stable coin needs to buy it back to unlock the crypto again. If the price of the stabelcoin would drop below 1 USD everyone who created them and sold them would make a profit buying it back lower. This essentially makes the coin stable. I'm not going into furthe…

>Backed by crypto means for every stablecoin worth 1 USD someone has locked away for example 1.5 USD in crypto. In order to do that, someone would need to match every USD coming from you with 0.5 USD from their own pocket.

kind, they dont lose that it just locked away. But yes it must be more than the value to be backed else it could become partially backed if the crypto price goes down to fast. It can be more of less than 150% backed is up to whoever writes the code. But 150% seems reasonable for a volatile assets.

You may think no one would do that but its actually a way to bet a price gains of your crypt. By locking away 150% you get 100% in stable coins to invest/spend without losing the volatility (possible gains) of your crypto. So if the price of you crypto goes up you get the whole profit on the locked 150% collateral even if you spend the stabel coin. ofc you need to buy back the stable coins to unlock you crypto but the buy back should always cost the same because its a stable coin.

Example with numbers:

You lock away 150 USD in ETH You get 100 USD in stable coin to spend Price of ETH goes up 100% (doubles) You can now buy 100 USD stabel coins and unlock 300 USD worth of ETH

This is interesting because you have 100 USD that you can use while you wait for the price to go up. You could buy ETH with it which also doubles in price so you have 200 USD worth of ETH You sell 100 USD worth of it to buy back the 100 USD stable coins

You now turned 150 USD worth of ETH into 400 USD worth of ETH even trough the price of ETH only doubled.

Ofc if the price drops your stable coin will be undercollateralized and someone else can "buy them" and re-collateralize which would make you lose the difference. In other words if you bet on rising prices and it goes down you have to top up to keep the 150% collateral if you cant top up someone else will and you get liquidated.

In the end is a zero sum game. Some lose others win but its a net gain because stable coins can can exist that are backed by crypto.

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#278

Post by postalrat » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

rspeele wrote: post #241

Just as a fun hypothetical to think about... an effective way to crack down on cryptocurrencies would be to do it under the table. Don't make any official policy about crypto other than recommending that US citizens don't invest in it. Attack the crypto ecosystem the way they attacked Iranian centrifuges. The damage is done by the CIA and NSA, not the SEC and FBI. The goal is not to make it impossible to use crypto b…

They could throw a ton of money into mining, raise the difficulty to some absurd number, then cut it. Rinse and repeat.

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#279

Post by RealityVoid » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

throwaway6734 wrote: post #276

RealityVoid wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah! :)) So naive. No way this is possible. Attacking compute used to secure it means attacking a whole lot of machines. And the people near those machines will patch them. An you need to attack 51% of them at the same time. Even if you manage to do a 2x spend, they will live with it and patch the stuff and people will still use it. Because what is a couple of 2x somewhere along the way compared to the rest of the bl…

That's assuming that they couldn't attack cooling infrastructure to fry the chips or the fabs making the asics. Also, enough chaos would surely have an impact on the price.

Only psychologically. The mining capacity is driven by the price not the other way around. The rest of the miners not hit would be ecstatic because now they get less competition. The difficulty would self-adjust eventually or new mining would get brought up.

The mined supply is very small compared to the circulating one. Besides, if you were to slow minting, it should drive the price up, not down. :)

Re: CEO of a top Bitcoin exchange warns: crackdown on cryptocurrencies may be coming

#280

Post by motohagiography » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #257

motohagiography wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked with more than one of those member companies in that foundation, the one thing I've learned about conspiracy theorists is that what they really lack is imagination and vision.

Identity is necessary but boring. US SSNs were used by third-parties far beyond the original purpose. Any identity system that achieves global scale can be used to anchor a risk score. Which systems do you consider good candidates for global digital identity and credit score? Cryptocurrency exchanges are using driver's license and utility company bills. The IaaS KYC EO basically says "record as much as possible", htt…

Necessary for whom? Every single use case for assigned identity reduces to enforcement. It is not a consumer product people want, it's a tool to herd people. These companies and so-called foundations are just jockeying to become the next Hollerith.

Identity schemes don't need features or complexity as once you're subject to it, it can be a crappy yellow card or even an arm band you carry with you and present it when it is demanded. The rest is theatre.