34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work • Hacker News Board

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#271

Post by greedo » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 8:23 PM UTC

foobiekr wrote: post #222

shaftway wrote: post #211

I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I am chomping at the bit to get back into the office. I'm a Senior SWE. I've got ADHD. Work from home has been * catastrophic* for me. I don't have the ability to focus. I have no space in my home where I can work distraction-free, and no ability to create a space separate from my family. From home I can slack off for an hour... or two... or days, and nobody notices because m…

You are not alone. Senior engineers in general - all of the leads I’ve talked to - feel like the current situation is completely broken. I can imagine it works for relatively low-technology low-complexity teams or very very small teams, but it is disastrous for complex and medium/large teams and projects. It’s just very challenging to impossible to keep an appropriate level of awareness.

I don't understand how being in the office helps you keep an appropriate level of awareness. Because you can walk up to someone and determine how far along they are with a project? Isn't that what Jira etc are for?

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#272

Post by Kluny » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 8:27 PM UTC

tmpz22 wrote: post #162

Kluny wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My spouse is a workforce analyst. She schedules work packages for a large government agency. She's responsible for the workloads of about 150 people. All have been working from home for a full year, and yes, they are quite capable of doing it. However, overall productivity is down 30%. Since they have good data, she can clearly see which people are close to their normal productivity even when working from home, and w…

Does the data set have a control group? A group of workers doing identical tasks during a global pandemic ripe with political and social strife but working entirely within an office with their peers?

In this case, it's not possible to have a control group. You should interpret this data as a case study rather than a randomized trial.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#273

Post by the_af » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 8:34 PM UTC

silicon2401 wrote: post #265

the_af wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood my point about spouse and kids: it wasn't about getting away from them, but about juggling work with kids vying for attention -- how do you explain a 2 year old that daddy has to work and cannot play with her for a few hours, and that she must stay locked in because there's a lockdown outside? -- and a couple sharing very limited space working at the same time (just think of Zoom meetings!).…

> I think you misunderstood my point about spouse and kids: it wasn't about getting away from them, but about juggling work with kids vying for attention -- how do you explain a 2 year old that daddy has to work and cannot play with her for a few hours, and that she must stay locked in because there's a lockdown outside? -- and a couple sharing very limited space working at the same time (just think of Zoom meetings!…

> Assuming the coronavirus is eventually under control, why not just work remote and send the kids off to a babysitter or wherever they would be while at the office?

Until very recently day care was closed by law (actually, worse than closed: you had pointless "Zoom hours" which don't help at all, the baby bored looking elsewhere and I still cannot work) and babysitters forbidden. Now that they are temporarily allowed, I breathe a bit more easily. They are threatening with forbidding them once more if the second wave hits as seriously as the trends seem to indicate.

Once COVID19 is under control, if my wife and I can work remotely with comfort, and I can go to the office maybe once or twice a week just to hang out with my coworkers, I'd be delighted.

> What about us hermits for all the rest of human history when fully remote work has been a very rare luxury?

I agree that people who want to permantently work remotely should be allowed to. This seems something else to me, the pandemic changed everything, in some cases for the worse. It's not a choice anymore.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#274

Post by greedo » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 8:37 PM UTC

brewdad wrote: post #252

jedberg wrote: post #75

This headline is clickbait. Read the actual survey. The actual survey says that 1/3 said they would start looking for a new job if they were no longer allowed to work remotely. But then 49% said they would be happy with a hybrid environment, where they only had to come in some of the time.

I have no doubt many managers will screw up the hybrid environment by making it something like in-person on non-consecutive days. My ideal would be 3 consecutive days in the office and 4 days away. Remote work days plus a "weekend" that may or may not include Sat and Sun.

Oh they'll screw it up. They'll say it's "hybrid" but promotions will naturally go to those who get more face-time. So the employees wanting to play the office politics game will be quick to realize it's best to be in the office.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#275

Post by t-writescode » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 8:40 PM UTC

annoyingnoob wrote: post #144

When can we talk about a 6 hour work day?

I think I'd prefer the 4-day, 8-hour-per-day work week over the 6-hour work day.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#276

Post by FredPret » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 8:46 PM UTC

tezzer wrote: post #167

FredPret wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a bigger house/condo with an office an option? If you can work remotely, why live (I’m assuming) in a city that is expensive because it was built around an in-person existence?

I don't think I want to pay for a bigger house; I already pay to be close to work. I've never had more than a 15 minute commute, and that has occasionally been an expensive policy! I don't like co-opting my living space for work. It clutters things physically and mentally.

"I already pay to be close to work"

That's the crux of my point. Change that, and your options suddenly open up a lot.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#277

Post by ghaff » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:01 PM UTC

citizenkeen wrote: post #169

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that the reason why you aren't missing face-to-face meetings is because everyone is forced to do full time remote? My team is really dreading the move to back to office, but I couldn't be happier. I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I…

I think a lot of people who enjoy remote are going to have a rude wake-up when offices go hybrid. Before Covid, half my meetings weren't scheduled. They just happened in a hallway. If I could grab a third person who I thought might have an opinion, we'd walk over to their office. But I'm not going to go find a Zoom setup unless I have to have their opinion. Which means we'll make the decision without them. Not out of…

So, in other words, your company or at least your team has crappy processes. One of the silver linings of this past year is that things like running meeting docs have become even more of a thing. (They mostly already were because we're a very distributed company.)

ADDED: I get your preference but it really doesn't scale. How does that work once there are multiple offices, external agencies, people who need to travel a lot, etc.?

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#278

Post by annoyingnoob » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:01 PM UTC

t-writescode wrote: post #275

annoyingnoob wrote: post #144

When can we talk about a 6 hour work day?

I think I'd prefer the 4-day, 8-hour-per-day work week over the 6-hour work day.

I've worked regular 40 our weeks, 9/80s with every other Friday off, and 4/10s with every Friday off. So, 8, 9, and 10 hour shifts. I still want a 6 hour day, 30 hours a week for the same pay. Longer days just are not as productive for me - I do my best work in abut 6 hours, the rest just isn't as productive. I think I would actually be more creative with more freedom in my day.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#279

Post by adregan » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

samr71 wrote: post #116

rhacker wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why?

- I'm a young college grad. It's difficult to new meet people without that workplace structure - I'm far more productive in an office - Onboarding remotely really doesn't work at all In short, working from home is boring, lonely, and stressful all at the same time.

I totally sympathize with younger workers, but coincidentally, I have an opposite experience as an older worker.

I stopped building my social life through work `n` companies ago; I'm way more productive at home and my setup is way nicer; I have onboarded many engineers in person and remotely and find onboarding remotely to be much easier and less of a drain.

This only confirms the line that my coworkers and I are noticing as folks make their decisions as to return to the office or not. The older (married and (some) with children) engineers are staunchly in the WFH camp, while the greener hands are enthused about working from the office.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#280

Post by ghaff » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

benbristow wrote: post #105

ghaff wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pretty much never call anyone out of the blue. I'd almost certainly message them and ask them if we can have a quick call.

I still feel sending a message for 'if we can have a quick call' is still similar to being out the blue. I feel like I'm putting pressure on someone at this time. Maybe it's just me/my personality.

If i got a message like that:

- I either wouldn't see it because I'm involved in something out and messages are not priority interrupts. (i.e. I don't have notifications turned on.)

- Or, if I see it but now isn't a good time, I'll reply something like sure but right now is a bit crazy. Call my cell at xPM. (Or I'll drop something on your calendar.)