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Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

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Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#271

Post by raducu »

darawk wrote: post #237
alexgmcm wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they do then why don't they share it? I mean they must realise this is a pretty unpopular decision so why not share their justification. Otherwise it's just an appeal to authority - "Ours not to reason why.."

I don't know, but I think it's reasonable to assume that their primary concern is productivity, and that at a company like Google, that concern will be analyzed in a data driven way. Perhaps they don't want to insult their developers by implying their productivity dipped, or something.

No, no, their primary concern is their own interest.

A lot of politics gets much harder in remote work, and this is what these people are best at.

It's not productivity, it's politics that is much harder to do when remote working.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#272

Post by kelnos »

azurezyq wrote: post #48
humanrebar wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...whether you know someone in the other team matters a lot... I was kind of hoping the remote work experience would help folks make that sort of inside baseball less important. There are real equity concerns to consider, but practically speaking, you end up with narrower and less open decision-making processes in general. It's definitely a complicated subject, but maybe some folks are partly missing some privilege…

I have to say it's human nature. When asking for a favor, you always feel more comfortable if the other guy had a nice chat with you yesterday. There are always things cannot be easily rationalized via formal processes.

The problem is that the person in the office in another city, or perhaps even on another floor of your building, probably doesn't get to have that nice chat, ever, due to the lower likelihood of running into each other.

Why should my requests get better prioritization just because I happen to work on the same floor as a person in a key position?

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#273

Post by qbasic_forever »

Howabout we get this raging pandemic under control first, and then companies can sort out how to get back into offices. There is far too much hubris and suicidal optimism at the idea that in a month everything is safe to share air with others again. Over half of the country is surging in new cases for a potential huge 4th wave, we're starting to see some vaccine breakthrough cases including unexpected hospitalizations and deaths from fully vaccinated folks, and children are still totally unvaccinated for at least the next 6-12 months. We also have only begun to verify mRNA boosters will work and be feasible to adapt to the ever-changing variants. All of these problems are surmountable and I fully expect to see them solved, but not in a couple months.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#274

Post by alexgmcm »

azurezyq wrote: post #32
tyingq wrote: post #4

That's interesting, since my assumption is that Google would be fairly data driven. I'd be curious if Googlers feel like this is because they are really seeing reduced productivity, or if there's a different motivation.

Disclaimer: Googler managing a small product engineering team. I have to say WFH has a considerable impact on productivity. Coding is actually fine, but the problems are: 1. Designing over VC is very difficult, especially for something entirely new. 3~4 people working on a single whiteboard is far more efficient. 2. Personal relationships are difficult to grow, especially for newbies. Usually those things got grown v…

I find I work more with other teams in WFH.

When we were in the office it was rare to speak with anyone who wasn't on your floor, whereas now it's no harder to work with someone in Stockholm or Berlin than it is in London.

Doing Zoom calls before was always a massive pain as we have an open office (like almost everyone nowadays) and there weren't enough private spaces.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#275

Post by wg0 »

throwaway3699 wrote: post #268
wg0 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely - in knowledge economy, insisting on physical presence is darn damn stupid. And I don't want to hang "with friends at work" I go to "work" that has to be specified clearly and that I expect to deliver with purely professional merit driven collaboration and not friendships and gangs. I have friends or would love to have friends out of the place where I work. I want strict compartmentalisation between work a…

> As the company would not want my personal friends to be hanging around the workplace for confidentiality and what not - by the same token, I don't workplace "friends" hanging out with me after office hours. Both of these are common scenarios at Google, though.

That's great if so. Google however isn't representative of most companies by even a long stretch. In most companies, any stranger cannot go past a checkpoint without some RFID and what not that too with prior permission and purpose that's "reasonable" or at least your line manager is OK with it.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#276

Post by [deleted] »

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #199

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

[deleted]

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#277

Post by gfxgirl »

mewse wrote: post #208
izacus wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many people's opinions will change after a longer time. I wrote the exact same type of posts five years ago when I started my first fully remote job. After two years or so I had to look for an office because the isolation is just murderous and it takes a long amount of time to actually start showing its teeth.

I can highly recommend renting a co-working space once that's a viable option wherever you are in the world. These can be surprisingly inexpensive and often come with internet, electricity, etc. included. Gives both the "short commute" benefit of work-from-home, as well as the "maintaining a clear separation between home and work" benefit of on-location-work. And for me personally (as an introvert), it was fantastic…

Didn't work for me.

The fact that we work on the same thing gives me more reasons to talk. I can't ask random people at a co-working space to help me debug an issue or to brainstorm a solution. They aren't familiar with my project the way co-workers would be. They also are not NDAed to look at what I'm working on

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#278

Post by caskstrength »

timthorn wrote: post #216
helmholtz wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understand why long commutes aren't "Pants On Fire" emergencies for people. If you're driving two hours every day , and not spending all your free time wondering how you can either change jobs or change housing, well, it's a finite life that you're pissing away. I'm certain that there will be an outpouring of hundreds of reasons why people cannot move, and I'm sure all of those reasons have merit. But it does…

I have regularly had 2-3h (each way) commutes. It's not because I couldn't change, but because I actively enjoyed the travel each day. Dedicated, no interruption thinking space, and a clear buffer between the stress of work and my home life.

Wouldn't that 3 hours per day be better spent on meditating/yoga/woodcarving (or any other relaxing activity) instead? I mean driving doesn't appear to me like most relaxing activity, but maybe it is just my perspective.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#279

Post by alexgmcm »

saagarjha wrote: post #27
tyingq wrote: post #4

That's interesting, since my assumption is that Google would be fairly data driven. I'd be curious if Googlers feel like this is because they are really seeing reduced productivity, or if there's a different motivation.

"Data driven" is frequently code for "we'll pick metrics that support what we want".

Yep, and then employees have a harder time challenging it - because how is an employee without the power of HR, facilities etc. going to gather the almighty data?

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#280

Post by kelnos »

tkiolp4 wrote: post #70
azurezyq wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: Googler managing a small product engineering team. I have to say WFH has a considerable impact on productivity. Coding is actually fine, but the problems are: 1. Designing over VC is very difficult, especially for something entirely new. 3~4 people working on a single whiteboard is far more efficient. 2. Personal relationships are difficult to grow, especially for newbies. Usually those things got grown v…

It’s fine to be less productive.

I genuinely wish more people held this attitude. Is it really worth 10% (or even 20%) productivity gains if the price is that your employees have to waste 1-2 hours a day sitting behind the wheel of a car?

To the executives and bean counters, yes, it obviously is. But from the overall perspective of society and mental health, hell no, it is absolutely horrifying to put people through that.

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