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Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

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Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#271
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what situation?

Well the situation in the article seems like a good example, you think the female ceo should swap with the male co founder. You're invested but not massively and you've not really known either for years.

It’s easy. Investment is a math game. What is the upside and downside of either action?

First choice, I remain silent. Best case, the female CEO kills it and I make some money. Worst case she flops and I lose my investment. Potentially great upside, relatively minor downside.

Second choice, I suggest a change. Best case the company does well and I make money. Worst case I’m labeled a sexist and I’m effectively ejected from the startup world. Potentially great upside, but unlimited losses.

Easy choice. I stay silent.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#272

Creating a throwaway for obvious reasons. I'm not an investor but someone who is in a position to make key decisions about peoples' careers and give advice, and I do have a bit of a trick I use for this. There was one black female mentee who I noticed was timid in taking credit for her work. I had recently attended a diversity panel where someone in a similar role as me said that in a similar situation, and her advic…

I'm not sure what you want readers to take away from this, but it sounds to me like you could use some help learning to communicate. Regardless of whether it contains the words "white man" or not, you should probably be able to explain any sentence you utter to another person. If you can't, I respectfully suggest that specific utterance would be better off unspoken.

In this case a simple followup of "you deserve more credit and I want you to feel able to advocate for yourself" would have cleared up the confusion and avoided a lot of trouble, and you wouldn't have had to invent a story-telling system in order to filter out people who believe in accountability.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#273

I’m a white cis male, and I work as a software engineer at a Silicon Valley unicorn. My employer is a perennial darling of the HN crowd, and is likely to continue its rocket ride in the years to come. I’ll be completely candid here: I have some kind of problem with women. This isn’t to say that I don’t like women or don’t want women to succeed. I just don’t want to associate with or be seen around women. I’m sure the…

Thank you for admitting this.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#274

>I don’t think most female founders even realize that they’re getting different advice than their male counterparts. Silicon Valley has always run on candor, but it’s being stifled at the moment, and no one is noticing that we are the collateral damage. Imagine what it's like being the intended target and not just "collateral damage". It's not a problem that men are nervous to be candid but it's a problem that women…

Deleted

Please don't take HN threads further into gender flamewar hell.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#275

I’m a white cis male, and I work as a software engineer at a Silicon Valley unicorn. My employer is a perennial darling of the HN crowd, and is likely to continue its rocket ride in the years to come. I’ll be completely candid here: I have some kind of problem with women. This isn’t to say that I don’t like women or don’t want women to succeed. I just don’t want to associate with or be seen around women. I’m sure the…

Your methods and conclusions make no sense - associating with women doesn't get you canceled, Kevin Spacey didn't molest any women as far as I know.

Smugness makes no sense when what it appears is you have some deep rooted psychological issues that need addressing.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#276

This is kind of the end result we're heading for, where you can only talk candidly with people who are equal or lower than you on the oppression hierarchy. The shitty part is that I'm pretty sure 99% of people are reasonable human beings but the media has to make it seem like that isn't the case so the risk equation changes. Similar to how kids used to roam around the neighborhood but now it's deemed too risky becaus…

Imagine a woman were to say, if we don't put an end to casual sexism, the end result we're heading for is that men will take any woman they see, kidnap her, and lock her in a dungeon.

A much more realistic and likely outcome, and a far less hysterical perspective than yours, is that the needle was way too far one way, now people are learning to cope with it shifting, and if we try to be more empathetic, perhaps getting help when we need to, we can shift it to a better place than it was before.

How do I know this? Because identical dynamics play over and over, change is scary, even if it is for the better, and people have opposed it on similar grounds -- it would lead to absurdities and worst outcomes for everyone involved -- since time immemorial. For example, see some arguments against women suffrage from just over a hundred years ago [1]:

> Because the acquirement of the Parliamentary vote would logically involve admission to Parliament itself, and to all Government offices. It is scarcely possible to imagine a woman being Minister for War, and yet the principles of the Suffragettes involve that and many similar absurdities.

> Because Woman Suffrage is based on the idea of the equality of the sexes, and tends to establish those competitive relations which will destroy chivalrous consideration.

And, of course, women do not want the vote [2]

The belief that we can -- and must -- work tirelessly change the world by, say, allowing humans to fly and even reach other planets, but when it comes to how people should speak to one another, well, that's too difficult to change, there's no point in trying, and if we try then the outcome will obviously be bad, just seems so bizarre.

[1]: https://www.johndclare.net/Women1_ArgumentsAgainst.htm

[2]: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1903/09/why-wom...

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#278

I am so thankful to work in an environment where everyone is just... normal. We don't have to walk on egg shells when speaking. Men and women can still interact like it was before I started reading about such insanity.

This will hit your company/industry eventually.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#279
This is real, and it's also a type of sexism. Not all forms of sexism or discrimination are acts of malice. The sexual harassment training required for my job speaks explicitly about disparate treatment.

I do question one of the examples a bit. The idea of giving advice to female founder to step down as CEO in favor of a male cofounder sounds like bad advice. It's pointing out one rather drastic solution, rather than the actual problem. Better advice would be to lay out the observed issues and help think through a range of possible solutions, if everyone can get on the same page about the problems. Maybe the solution would still be a change in roles, but there's a lot less chance it would seem sexist the advice were predicated on a lot more information.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#280

This is kind of the end result we're heading for, where you can only talk candidly with people who are equal or lower than you on the oppression hierarchy. The shitty part is that I'm pretty sure 99% of people are reasonable human beings but the media has to make it seem like that isn't the case so the risk equation changes. Similar to how kids used to roam around the neighborhood but now it's deemed too risky becaus…

Who are “we”? Anglo-Saxons? Unite States Citizens? or even only a subset of the later? particularly those active in finance and other fields where a man's social conformance weighs more than his skills.

I can't say that I have ever in my life noticed much of the Anglo-Saxon gender, race, and other such politics in real life and I remain sceptical as to what extent it is actually true within Anglo-Saxon offices, for I find that all “sides” of the issue seem to offer very different, contradictory experiences, and mostly reads as a rather exagerated an implausible story of how bad it is for one's own side.

Though there might be a kernel of truth behind some of it, most of it reads as though the writers see boogymen, and unreasonable fear, and I will say that when actual hard statistics be available, they almost always paint a very difficult picture than what is complained about in all these “culture war” discussions, and that certainly goes for all sides.

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