Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#271

Post by whimsicalism » Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

fastball wrote: post #98

cma wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess businesses don't need the government laws enforcing shareholder voting rights and minority shareholder protections then right?

No absolutely the government should enforce legal agreements via the legal system. But that's not what this is suggesting, right? This is suggesting the government should treat unions preferentially, not equitably.

> This is suggesting the government should treat unions preferentially, not equitably.

Equity is in the eye of the beholder. I don't see how this law is treating unions preferentially, and am interested in how you distinguish it with the aforementioned minority shareholder protections.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#272

Post by joppy » Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 2:28 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #238

telaelit wrote: post #55

I wish the NRLB would be much harsher against business owners and executives who engage in anti-union rhetoric and behaviors. People have the right to form unions, lying about losing benefits and lowering pay should be handled much more harshly, there should be actual penalties instead of just having to read a statement and delete a tweet.

I disagree. It should be a free market. If the employees don’t like their treatment they should leave and take a different job. I am sure there is a UAW job out there to be had. The most likely outcome from this is that Tesla moves more and more production out of a California and into a more business friendly state, such as Texas.

So in a "free" market, one side has all the bargaining power and the other side has none of it? What does a free market mean to you?

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#273

Post by mkoubaa » Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 2:29 PM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #259

sjwright wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s only the near-richest man in theory. If he tried to convert all of his company ownership into cash, the company value would crash so fast that he would probably be lucky to actually recover one fifth of his theoretical wealth.

That's a stupid argument, because none of the people on the richest people lists have any significant portion of wealth in liquid assets. Wealth for good reason is not defined as amount of cash you own.

The richest people list do not include those who are good at hiding their wealth

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#274

Post by jbroson » Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

Jonnax wrote: post #255

JBSmoove wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care who was "baited" A US Senator threatening to retaliate and break-up a business because she didn't like tweets about her is straight-up authoritarian thuggery. It's the same shit Trump used to do but when Liz does it...well it's GREAT, she's "fighting for the working class"

So it's okay for a business to treat employees so badly they find they have to piss in bottles? And it's okay for their official PR twitter account to lie and say it doesn't happen? But it's not okay that a politician says they're going to do something about it?

Amazon's actions have absolutely nothing to do with this.

US Senators should not be threatening retaliation against a company because of tweets that piss them off.

Why is this only bad when Trump or a Republican does it?

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#275

Post by r0p3 » Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

sjwright wrote: post #254

neolog wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a commons problem; voluntary membership means free-riders will destroy the collective resource.

Is that sufficient reason to coerce others to participate? Why should people who want to collectively bargain have a veto over the people who don’t want that?

Why is it coercive to have to join a union to work somewhere? Work somewhere else. If that sounds coercive then so should having to work at tesla to begin with. I think wage labor is always a bit coercive but I don't see how having to join a union to work somewhere is worse. And it solves the free rider problem.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#276

Post by ddevault » Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

Oh no, he has to delete a tweet! A two-year old tweet! The humanity!

This is ridiculous. Where's the fucking fine?

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#277

Post by dahfizz » Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

Jonnax wrote: post #255

JBSmoove wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care who was "baited" A US Senator threatening to retaliate and break-up a business because she didn't like tweets about her is straight-up authoritarian thuggery. It's the same shit Trump used to do but when Liz does it...well it's GREAT, she's "fighting for the working class"

So it's okay for a business to treat employees so badly they find they have to piss in bottles? And it's okay for their official PR twitter account to lie and say it doesn't happen? But it's not okay that a politician says they're going to do something about it?

I would expect more nuance from an HN reader. It's possible for both amazon and warren to be in the wrong.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#278

Post by sebow » Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

So much for freedom of speech. (Yes, even on privately-owned platforms, because they have been previously deemed "public space" in court cases.)

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#279

Post by jbroson » Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #243

JBSmoove wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany's workforce in automotive and many other industries is HIGHLY unionized. I've never heard of these people being lazy, not wanting to work etc. In fact German engineering is the envy of the world! VW, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche all German engineered and manufactured by heavily unionized workforces! Sounds like your anecdotal bad experience with unions is not representative of reality. And FWIW I can list you just…

>VW, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche all German engineered and manufactured by heavily unionized workforces! Sure, but for each of those there are 10-100 other smaller companies in automotive or other industries that don't have unions, and some German companies have stirred up quite a few scandals of not following the employment laws or abusing their workforce, which coincidentally was mostly immigrants. Cherry picking the bi…

SO OP gets to claim based on his anecdotal experience that unions are awful and full of lazy people.

But pointing out there are wildly successful unions filled with hardworking people is "cherry picking"?

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#280

Post by whimsicalism » Sat, Mar 27, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

mkoubaa wrote: post #273

cycomanic wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a stupid argument, because none of the people on the richest people lists have any significant portion of wealth in liquid assets. Wealth for good reason is not defined as amount of cash you own.

The richest people list do not include those who are good at hiding their wealth

Who is richer than Bezos because they have so much cash stashed away, pray tell?