The Framework Laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: The Framework Laptop

#271

Post by bee_rider » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #90

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're just USB-C dongles that snap into the chassis.. You can see better shots here: https://frame.work This is an unpopular opinion, but I think this proves that Apple was right to dump legacy ports. This solution is sort of clever but it sacrifices a ton of internal space that could have been spent on a bigger battery. USB-C, and the correct cables, are all anyone needs. (the Nespresso analogy is ridiculous, a la…

Apple burns almost all of their space savings on making the machine thinner, to the point of absurdity. Apple is content to push everything into dongles (which you have to carry around anyway) to get it thinner. The point at which I can't have a wired RJ45 ethernet port is already ridiculous - that is not a thick connector. Same with fullsize USB ports. Battery life there are hard limits as well: nobody is making a l…

People seem fine with it.

If you are bringing your laptop to a coffee shop, you probably won't need an ethernet port anyway, so you can leave the dongle at home. Lots of mobile use-cases don't involve plugging in to a ton of things, so why waste space having ports for it?

We're mostly programmers here, with nice keyboards and big screens as a necessity for work. On the other hand, lots of people are completely content with the base laptop. Making things easier for us at their expense is probably not a great business decision.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#272

Post by blacksmith_tb » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #261

samizdis wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I remember being particularly disappointed when Google's Project Ara [1] to create a modular mobile phone was shelved. It seemed like a fantastic idea, and I truly thought that Alphabet/Google had the cash/clout - and will - to deliver. Still, I haven't lost my optimism just yet. As you say, good luck to Framework with the laptop project. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Ara

They were competing with their partners, that was always going to end poorly. It could only ever be an experiment.

Hasn't that always been true? Their Pixel 4a kept me from buying a competitor's product.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#273

Post by RussianCow » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

desmap wrote: post #265

Nirav, I don't want to be the guy but yeah. One the one side, I like that somebody finally takes care of products we really need—notebooks. That somebody enters the hardware game, one of the hardest spaces to conquer. On the other side, I am a bit underwhelmed. I mean this must the dream of every engineer, designer and 13-year old. Designing your own notebook. And what's the results? It's good, I would buy one, maybe…

> This logo, then the centered trackpad (are you serious?), huge clumsy bays and a non-centered displays. Worst a design that doesn't dare, that is afraid to go beyond the Macbook comfort zone, something that wants to be liked. Not that all of these are dealbreakers but IDK, let's says they do not make a good first impression.

Personally, I don't think they want to change too many variables at the same time. It makes sense to first create something that is familiar to users while offering the benefits they advertise, instead of alienating users right off the bat with a weird/different design that may or may not be successful. It's just unnecessary risk at this point.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#274

Post by protomyth » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

dfgdghdf wrote: post #268

Reading down the proposed spec sheet, I'm starting to see how crappy the competition is! * Apple MacBook - Nothing configurable. Expensive and not build to be repaired. * Microsoft Surface - Much the same, but with Windows * Lenovo Thinkpad - A little more configurable than a MacBook, and much better value, but still difficult to repair. Missing premium features like an Aluminium case. * Dell XPS 13 - Much like the L…

My advice? Make sure it works _flawlessly_ with the top 3 Linux distributions.

May sure it works flawlessly with one of the BSD distributions and you know the Linux experience will be flawless.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#275

Post by freeone3000 » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

jdxcode wrote: post #214

bombcar wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that DOESN'T get broken on the second use, honestly.

One careless snag of the cable would have to rip the aluminum apart I would think

The connector's on the top, the bottom is simply a retention clip. If it breaks, you can replace it with tape, or simply resting the laptop on a surface while the cable is plugged in.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#276

Post by pachico » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

This is just great and I wish then the best of luck. I will seriously consider them for my next laptop!

Re: The Framework Laptop

#277

Post by danbolt » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

Part of me feels like by the time we get an interchangeable laptop/phone, it will be a bit like the PC where interchangeable parts were used off-the-shelf instead of custom made.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#278

Post by scythe » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

warmwaffles wrote: post #204

CivBase wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is really needed is a common chassis. I agree. I understand why that wasn't a thing 10 years ago while laptops continued to get thinner and bezels continued to get smaller and I/O was rapidly changing and evolving. Modern laptops are much more consistent, and standards like M.2 and USB-C have provide excellent support for low-profile expansion. Now seems like a great time to start rolling out standards for lap…

That's not where the money is though unfortunately. It's why manufacturers like the solder on components. Easier to manufacture and make as small as possible. I hate it, and think it's bad for consumers.

If the only barrier to building your own laptop was soldering the components together, I'd have built one already.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#279

Post by unionpivo » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

dbeley wrote: post #254

For a laptop mainly targeting power users, I think it lacks several features for it to be a game changer: - trackpoint - real mouse buttons - exotic keyboard layouts (i.e ortholinear)

it has user replaceable TrackPoint and keyboard. So those could come later, if it succeeds.

Plus they say it will support 3rd party developing accessories, so maybe ?

Re: The Framework Laptop

#280

Post by dash2 » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

The problem is that non-repairability has an economic logic. Essentially, you make a machine with a rather predictable lifetime. It is the equivalent of renting the machine out. You're can then offer support for that time period. If the time period is long enough, customers will want to upgrade the whole caboodle at the end. Everyone's happy. And with the focus on a single product, you have the scale to pour resources into product design.

This approach will attract demanding customers - like the hn crowd - who will put demands on support as they customize and tinker. Then, if they extend it a lot, they'll likely buy from other suppliers who free-ride off your development work. So you lose repeat custom.

Tl;dr: there's a reason why modern cars don't have easily accessible engines, and do come with fixed-term support packages. Bundling works. It may even be best for the consumer.