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Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

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Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#271

Post by sireat »

valuearb wrote: post #138
phreack wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, same here, the only explanation I can think of is that the scammers have someone on the inside approving these fake apps.

No, the reviewers never see the scam screens. Once approved the scammers change a setting in the cloud and the app starts opening in scam mode.

If the app is working properly during review, why change it to nonworking later on?

It is like that Key and Peele skit about robbing a bank by working there.

If you can create a working app why not leave it as is ?

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#272

Post by novok »

valuearb wrote: post #147
hmottestad wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hits extra close to home when Apple enforces some arbitrary rule for one app (like Amphetamine) and then doesn't even bother to test other apps.

It tests every app, including this one. Think about what really happened here. Edit: Apparently my downvoters can’t think about what really happened here so I’ll explain it. In App Review this app worked fine. Oh, the keyboard was likely lame and not useful, but the scam screens were no where to be seen. Then the app is approved and placed on the store. Now the scam screens appear. It’s trivial to do, is done all the…

Why don't they just leave the badly implemented keyboard then and slap a subscription button on it?

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#273

Post by valuearb »

novok wrote: post #272
valuearb wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It tests every app, including this one. Think about what really happened here. Edit: Apparently my downvoters can’t think about what really happened here so I’ll explain it. In App Review this app worked fine. Oh, the keyboard was likely lame and not useful, but the scam screens were no where to be seen. Then the app is approved and placed on the store. Now the scam screens appear. It’s trivial to do, is done all the…

Why don't they just leave the badly implemented keyboard then and slap a subscription button on it?

They probably A/B tested and had a far lower conversion rate when users saw their crappy keyboard.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#274

Post by valuearb »

TomSwirly wrote: post #251
valuearb wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It tests every app, including this one. Think about what really happened here. Edit: Apparently my downvoters can’t think about what really happened here so I’ll explain it. In App Review this app worked fine. Oh, the keyboard was likely lame and not useful, but the scam screens were no where to be seen. Then the app is approved and placed on the store. Now the scam screens appear. It’s trivial to do, is done all the…

> Then the app is approved and placed on the store. Now the scam screens appear. This means there's some switch built into the code that changes its behavior, either after a certain date, or on certain known IPs that Apple tests on, or after a certain URL changes value. At this point, the complaints pour in. People ask for refunds and claim it's not as advertised. The $400 subscription fee has to be mentioned in some…

Apple gets thousands of complaints a day. They have to do a detailed investigation or they’ll risk pulling legitimate apps. The apps can also be geofenced so the behavior doesn’t occur in Cupertino.

Just because Apple doesn’t immediately remove a scam doesn’t mean they aren’t working to remove it.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#275

Post by valuearb »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #228
valuearb wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently developers can develop more than one kind of app.

This sounds almost like the developers should be permanent, pardon my French, bitches to both Apple who can boot them for any petty reason, and to scammers who copycat them and make money with straightaway fraud, then to Apple again, who won't do anything about the scammers (I wonder what percentage of App Store revenue comes from those, once you look past the biggest players like Microsoft/Adobe/whoever else is in t…

You can build an app that only serves an extremely narrow market niche to improve functionality that is incredibly important to the platform owner, but then you shouldn’t complain about being sherlocked or how tough competition is.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#276

Post by panic »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #178
panic wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube automatically enforces copyright on behalf of the recording industry. Why shouldn’t Apple do it on behalf of their app developers?

> in no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery Just because another app works similar to another app does not mean it's infringing.

Just because a video has a similar content ID signature to another video doesn’t mean it’s infringing either. My point is that, for better or for worse, platforms already “do it for you” if you’re a record label—there’s no reason why the App Store couldn’t do something similar for app developers.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#277

Post by valuearb »

bredren wrote: post #246
valuearb wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It tests every app, including this one. Think about what really happened here. Edit: Apparently my downvoters can’t think about what really happened here so I’ll explain it. In App Review this app worked fine. Oh, the keyboard was likely lame and not useful, but the scam screens were no where to be seen. Then the app is approved and placed on the store. Now the scam screens appear. It’s trivial to do, is done all the…

I wonder if it is trivially hard to detect or not. For example, if the app reviewer’s touch interaction with an app were recorded and the resulting screens diffed with the same pattern after publishing, there should be no changes. This is a method used as part of some UI testing with selenium. There could be apps this does not work for, such as when content changes or conversion type UI is shown. But I imagine there…

I think there is a solution and Apple should implement it. But even code we know how to write doesn’t appear overnight, doesn’t work perfectly, and doesn’t suffer from high levels of false positives.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#278

Post by valuearb »

TomSwirly wrote: post #255
valuearb wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This app clearly scammed the App Reviewers. How would you prevent that?

Responding to the hundreds of complaints? Periodically testing apps to see they haven't become a scam. Apple takes 30% - one dollar in three goes to them, and the remaining 2 has to go to writing and testing software, design, customer support, advertising. It's ridiculous that so many people think Apple can just take this huge cut and then allow people to be literally robbed by scam apps and just shrug.

It’s ridiculous that you don’t think a good portion if that 30% doesn’t go to writing and testing software, design, customer support, advertising, not to forget hosting, developer services, localization, etc.

Apple should figure out a better automated solution for this specific problem, but it’s ignorant to not acknowledge they already do far more than other app stores.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#279

Post by zepto »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #270
zepto wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but the issue here seems to be a legal one. There is very little IP protection for software in general. If the app conforms to the rules, Apple may not be able to determine that it’s a violation of any rule. Then what?

Excuses, excuses. Apple advertises the benefit of its App Store that thanks to the diligent manual review, such fraud simply has no place there. They also maintain that the fees are high because the review process is top notch and thus expensive. Now they have to admit that either the walls in their garden are worse than Swiss cheese by letting bad actors in, or that they are complicit in that fraud, because someone…

“Excuses, excuses.“

This is legal liability. That matters.

> Now if I’m just as likely to be screwed over by an Apple-approved app from their walled garden as I am by sideloading random crap, what’s the point in it for me, as a user? If I have to exercise just as much caution, I can just as well sideload what I want.

If this were true, then sure.

But it obviously isn’t.

Even the Google Play store is way worse in terms of risks than the App Store.

Re: Apple watch keyboard developer put off by app store scammers

#280

Post by valuearb »

hctaw wrote: post #247
valuearb wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The binary is never changed. Apps can behave differently based on a flag set in the cloud, that’s only triggered after approval. They can behave differently based on geofencing areas, such as Cupertino. As to the point of whether review matters, can you imagine the dreck the store would be filled with without review?

I mean the app store is filled with garbage already because review, much like DRM, only solves a few surface problems while punishing good-actors more than clever bad-actors. Geofencing seems easy enough to spoof if you're Apple and have internal tools down to the hardware. Not to mention, Apple is global business. The issue of only working during review is solved by doing a two-pronged approach, testing pre-producti…

Not disagree that Apple should work on a solution, but what app store already does this?

We can ask that Apple do better but don’t forget it already does far more then any other store.

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