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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#271

Post by pmiller2 »

memonkey wrote: post #221
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

The assumption that a government model would cause a loss of innovation seems dismissive of what the government model has brought us in the past (DARPA, Space Program, nuclear energy, etc., etc.)

You forgot the internet.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#272

Post by qeternity »

zionic wrote: post #159
cblconfederate wrote: post #136

I m sorry but all this concerted action feels (from afar) a lot like "if people don't vote the way we want, we re just gonna have to force them". It's not about overreach, but companies are not political entities, and reversing this relationship is a self-defeating travesty And if they are doing it for cheap popularity points -- well trump may be gone in a week, but his voters won't leave. this just reinforces mistru…

What’s amazing is this is, despite most commenters agreeing here, incredible evidence for the “they’re all controlled by the same people” crowd. This level of coordinated action shouldn’t be possible in a healthy, diverse, competitive environment.

Of course it is. It’s not like these are fringe views that people are acting on. Look at his inner circle who abandoned him before “Big Tech” did. There’s a huge (and growing) chunk of society that is sick of what he says and does. Forget his ideals, I’m talking about his behavior.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#273

Post by syshum »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

>>But political affiliation is not a protected class.

Pretty sure it is in California.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#274

Post by danhor »

zionic wrote: post #159
cblconfederate wrote: post #136

I m sorry but all this concerted action feels (from afar) a lot like "if people don't vote the way we want, we re just gonna have to force them". It's not about overreach, but companies are not political entities, and reversing this relationship is a self-defeating travesty And if they are doing it for cheap popularity points -- well trump may be gone in a week, but his voters won't leave. this just reinforces mistru…

What’s amazing is this is, despite most commenters agreeing here, incredible evidence for the “they’re all controlled by the same people” crowd. This level of coordinated action shouldn’t be possible in a healthy, diverse, competitive environment.

The obvious reason could be something happening, impacting all these decisions in an major way. An attempted self-coup is a pretty good reason to act. Now the obvious question is, why did it take a few days?

A) It didn't (twitter and other social media platforms reacted pretty fast)

B) Companies that don't have a lot of experience with people inciting violence and riots (i.e. not huge social media companies) probably didn't have a process ready

C) Since other companies took actions, the ones left may "read the room"

In fact, the spread-around (in time) and ad-hoc actions speak more to an "oh shit, this is very bad for our image and our own employees are very unhappy with this" reaction

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#275

Post by [deleted] »

djakaitis wrote: post #67
rubatuga wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not at war, these are two groups within a single country.

I think you are missing the point of my question. I’m pointing out that not all opinions should be protected equally. Opinions of hate or violence are bad for society. I don’t understand why the suppression of those things is considered totalitarian? Especially when it comes from private enterprise.

[deleted]

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#276

Post by pmiller2 »

grzm wrote: post #269
pmiller2 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Visa is a "utility," why are we clutching pearls when Trump is banned by them, but not Pornhub?

There are plenty of comments on HN in opposition to Visa and MasterCard stopping to work with Pornhub. Volume might not be the same, but that's hardly surprising. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25381920 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25379213

The volume is the point.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#277

Post by JumpCrisscross »

memonkey wrote: post #221
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

The assumption that a government model would cause a loss of innovation seems dismissive of what the government model has brought us in the past (DARPA, Space Program, nuclear energy, etc., etc.)

> The assumption that a government model would cause a loss of innovation seems dismissive of what the government model has brought us in the past

Government program != utility designation. DARPA, NASA and the Manhattan Project were not utilities. PG&E is a utility. It requires political consent to make significant changes.

I’m not saying utilities can’t be innovative. Amtrak and the Post Office are utilities, and they experiment. But they have obligations private businesses don’t, and that slows things down.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#278

Post by flowside »

cblconfederate wrote: post #136

I m sorry but all this concerted action feels (from afar) a lot like "if people don't vote the way we want, we re just gonna have to force them". It's not about overreach, but companies are not political entities, and reversing this relationship is a self-defeating travesty And if they are doing it for cheap popularity points -- well trump may be gone in a week, but his voters won't leave. this just reinforces mistru…

It's a business decision. What if a boycott starts because other customers don't like Stripe sticking with Parler? They should just eat the losses? It's a business decision and companies are free to make them.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#279

Post by trustfundbaby »

I was on the fence about this, but reading the comments convinced me it was the absolute right decision.

The fact that all these institutions just allowed this horrible hateful speech for four years, in the name of free speech etc, despite all the harassment, harm (mental and otherwise) it caused to so many people in America actually emboldened so many to the extent that now that they crossed this invisible line, they can't even really understand the ramifications of what happened. That what gets me.

To be hyperfocused on the free speech or "big brother" aspect of these bans, not the fact that a small group of rioters were just a few feet away from irreversibly staining American history with the blood of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the chain of command of the United states of America, as well as overrunning the seat of power of the most powerful nation in the world, on national TV ... just tells me that things really went too far and should have been shut down much sooner.

I'm sure a lot of the people at the capitol that day have the narrative running in their minds that they are the heroes of America democracy, but the reality is that there is simply no justification for any of this, that can be told. A smarter group of individuals would take all this on the chin, make penance in some way while staying under the radar to regroup and reconfigure their message/approach instead of citing private business overreach as some sort of justification for what happened

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#280

Post by Acrobatic_Road »

Zezi wrote: post #173

This is insane. I’m anti crypto since inception but there needs to be checks and balances. No judicial precedent or order just monopolies. If you’re pro AWS and social media banning I disagree but can understand to an extent. This is just lunacy

this is a pretty good time for a lot of the anti crypto crowd to figure out the necessity of permissionless money. I hope to never hear the statement "crypto has no real usecase" ever again.
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