A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize • Hacker News Board

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#271

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

rauhl wrote: post #225

UncleMeat wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but when you already work at the company that pays and treats their employees like Google, I'm not sure what more you are entitled to. Google made something like 300,000 in profit per employee in 2019. There are regular complaints about benefits and pay multipliers being cut back. Why shouldn't workers seek to capture as much of their labor as possible? People don't seem to complain when businesses do that.

> Google made something like 300,000 in profit per employee in 2019. Isn’t this roughly the same order of magnitude as many Google developer salaries? If so, how much more expensive can any employee be before he is too expensive to employ?

[deleted]

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#272

Post by cool_dude85 » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

finnthehuman wrote: post #98

objclxt wrote: post #38

When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…

>When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions Because everyone talking about unionization refuses to get into the nitty gritty of what I might gain, what I might lose, and the structural changes to the workplaces that are inherent with unionization. And if/when I/others start spitballing about what those might be we're treated like dolts uneducated on organized labor, and should just…

So you want someone who can tell you what the yet-to-be-negotiated contract with your employer will look like? Maybe you should be looking to join up with the Mage's Guild, I understand that their magic can see the future very clearly.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#273

Post by mkr-hn » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

karl11 wrote: post #60

Don't think we've ever seen Hollywood in the modern era without unions, so not sure how you can claim it's "undeniable" the industry is better off. We basically have no clue if it's better off or not. Unions are intended for industries where a worker doesn't have a marketplace of options as there is a single or just a few employers (e.g. Hollywood, teachers, coal mining towns, hospital staff, etc.). Unionizing at Goo…

They did a strike to get paid for streaming back when most people thought it wouldn't go anywhere. I think the industry is better off with them getting paid for what is becoming the default way to watch stuff.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#274

Post by jfim » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

rauhl wrote: post #225

UncleMeat wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but when you already work at the company that pays and treats their employees like Google, I'm not sure what more you are entitled to. Google made something like 300,000 in profit per employee in 2019. There are regular complaints about benefits and pay multipliers being cut back. Why shouldn't workers seek to capture as much of their labor as possible? People don't seem to complain when businesses do that.

> Google made something like 300,000 in profit per employee in 2019. Isn’t this roughly the same order of magnitude as many Google developer salaries? If so, how much more expensive can any employee be before he is too expensive to employ?

That's profit per employee, not revenue per employee. Revenue per employee is much larger, at least according to this website [0]:

> Alphabet Inc's revenue per employee grew on trailing twelve months basis to a new company high of $ 2,143,353

[0] https://csimarket.com/stocks/GOOG-Revenue-per-Employee.html

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#275

Post by throwoutttt » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

objclxt wrote: post #29

cft wrote: post #15

This could be the beginning of tech stock market crash. If that effort succeeds that is

Why? Many successful companies are fully unionised. How many people creating content at Disney do you think are card carrying members of a union (the answer: nearly all of them).

That must be why Disney needs to buy Star Wars and Marvel, because they're so great at innovating their own content

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#276

Post by alisonkisk » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

rauhl wrote: post #225

UncleMeat wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but when you already work at the company that pays and treats their employees like Google, I'm not sure what more you are entitled to. Google made something like 300,000 in profit per employee in 2019. There are regular complaints about benefits and pay multipliers being cut back. Why shouldn't workers seek to capture as much of their labor as possible? People don't seem to complain when businesses do that.

> Google made something like 300,000 in profit per employee in 2019. Isn’t this roughly the same order of magnitude as many Google developer salaries? If so, how much more expensive can any employee be before he is too expensive to employ?

Profit is after expenses, so employee can be $300k/yr more expensive before they are expensive to employ.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#277

Post by crisdux » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

After reading the NYT article and browsing their website - they seem to be mainly concerned with getting the company to bend to various social justice causes and getting the company to adopt politically motivated strategy changes. So I'm a bit confused. This doesn't seem like the purpose of a labor union in the traditional sense. What am I missing here?

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#278

Post by antisoeu » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

UncleMeat wrote: post #182

karl11 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees can ask for better, but when you already work at the company that pays and treats their employees like Google, I'm not sure what more you are entitled to. It seems clear to me that these are people who are unwilling to sacrifice some of the money they earn to follow their ideals and principles, so they are trying this instead. There are very few perils of leaving Google - a top tier company in an industry t…

> but when you already work at the company that pays and treats their employees like Google, I'm not sure what more you are entitled to. Google made something like 300,000 in profit per employee in 2019. There are regular complaints about benefits and pay multipliers being cut back. Why shouldn't workers seek to capture as much of their labor as possible? People don't seem to complain when businesses do that.

Just call it what it is, greed. Why is it greedy if company owners want to make money, but "good and social" if workers want to make money?

I don't think the "earnings per employee" metric entitles employees to anything.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#279

Post by greggman3 » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

kenhwang wrote: post #180

microtherion wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple used to have easter eggs in its software, crediting individual engineers. Steve Jobs banned them, saying it would be unfair to give credit to individuals instead of the whole company, would make it easier for competitors to poach key engineers, etc. At the time, Jobs was also running Pixar, which never seemed to have problems in its movies to credit everybody down to the hairstylist of the second unit's caterer…

Credit everyone by name or credit no one by name. It is inherently unfair to only credit key talent.

It's also incredibly unfair to credit people not really related to the actual product. Should the names of all the employees of some bookstore in Wyoming be in the credits for Harry Potter books?

The credits for God of War PS4 were 28 minutes long listing pretty much every employ of Sony in all countries down to caterers.

Personally I find that insulting and unfair to the actual creative team that made the game.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#280

Post by rzz3 » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #167

objclxt wrote: post #38

When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…

For some reason, the most vocal aspect of tech workers tends to be this libertarianish pure merit based persona that is insulted by any type of collective bargaining. I think that attitude rules the day because tech related industries are in an extended growth period, and the more “legacy” aspects of the industry use offshoring and guest workers to maintain total control. (The armies of programmers churning out Java…

I personally am very happy with my job, and when I raise any kind of grievance it is listened to. If I were unhappy, I’d go to another company. So I just don’t see what I’d get out of it personally.