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My Experience at Apple

ex-apple-engineer.medium.com

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Re: My Experience at Apple

#271

Post by rhizome »

rmk wrote: post #142
xvector wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Work only the good jobs. If it's not good, switch teams ASAP. I agree with this but you have to understand that it's very difficult and frightening for an inexperienced new grad or someone on a green card to do. These groups are also unfortunately the most exploited.

I do not understand why someone w/ a green card needs to be afraid of being fired. Isn't the whole point of it to firm up your status as someone who is allowed to stay on indefinitely with very few conditions, one of them being % of year spent in the US, plus not committing certain serious offences (felonies?)

People with green cards don't need to be afraid of being fired: they're permanent residents. The people who have to worry are those on work visas.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#272

Post by isoskeles »

exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

> (we were competing with another internal team to beat them to the punch.)

What this intentional? I worked at a company that similarly had three projects that were "competing" with each other, unofficially. It was more like three different teams working on a spellchecker, all with different upper engineering management VPs or directors vying for more influence in the organization. Many other teams standing by were not choosing what project to integrate with because we didn't know which would be completed first (or if they made a choice, it was because VP / director told them they had to).

In any case, it seemed silly, and worse, it revealed a lack of vision or leadership in upper management to just choose one of these projects instead of having multiple people working on the same thing, which would inevitably lead to two projects being canned and some number of engineers feeling demoralized and quitting.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#273

Post by opportune »

Apocryphon wrote: post #211
zepto wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This stuff happens in companies that aren’t secretive though. I don’t see how secrecy enables this.

Sunlight is a disinfectant. With transparency, even the largest most aloof company has to grapple to some degree with poor PR and public shaming. Amazon is well-known for having a toxic work culture even beyond its fulfillment centers, thanks to Amazon employees speaking out. And having a high-profile voice- a Tim Bray, a Susan Fowler, is also invaluable. As of yet, there isn't an equivalent to Apple, probably becaus…

I don't think it has to do purely with visibility outside the company. Visibility within the company is just as, if not more, important. A common theme I've noticed regarding this in stories from Apple is people covering up/scapegoating failing projects by lying to management, creating fake reports, fabricating data, etc. The con seems able to be kept up for a long time because there is only one person you need to fool or convince to not care.

At the less secretive companies I've worked at, where there are many-to-many dependencies and interactions, you'd never be able to get away with something like that because people will freely talk/collaborate/associate with people without going through management. Or people would just look at your source code and see that it's all smoke and mirrors.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#274

Post by m0llusk »

arcatech wrote: post #177
lordnacho wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for most people the question is whether there are reasons to think Apple's internal environment fosters this kind of behaviour. You can imagine a company of that size has a huge number of teams, some where everything is just dandy, some with terrible issues like yours and the author's. But is there something corporate-wide about Apple that makes you think what you went through was common, or the opposite (ie…

The internal culture was influenced by Steve Jobs. He was widely known for being an asshole who also happened to be an excellent salesman with a really good design sense. That's Apple.

That isn't really true. Steve Jobs was no nonsense, but was most often merely direct rather than rude.

One thing which Steve Jobs did do was go to great length to assemble highly qualified teams for missions that were clearly stated and understood and which all involved agreed were worthwhile even if there might be quibbles over details. The Apple that rescued itself from near death with colorful and fun designs and then released a BSD derived OS was very different from the modern Apple where contributors joust for top status without much if any existential threat.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#275

Post by makach »

Just wow... I work within IT, and this post totally changed my point of view on Apple - from being optimistically positive to chaotic neutral. I will still consume much of their hw/sw - but I will not have desire to work for them - or think highly about them - until the stories that comes out of Apple change.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#276

Post by uzakov »

djcapelis wrote: post #223
reactordev wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, you can fill in the blank with any FAANG company with this story. I’ve heard it a thousand times. Toxic management. Sorry you went through that, sorry that was your first taste of engineering out of college. Glad you stuck with it. It’s a tough spot to be. Do you roll over and do the job your being yelled at to do even though you know any concessions are BS? Or like the senior folks, do you walk? It’s a really…

It’s not a hard decision. You unquestionably walk away from a situation like this. If your interactions with the team are going this poorly, walk immediately. There’s nothing to be gained from trying to hang on in a situation like this. This person should have walked much earlier. It’s agonizing how much broken US immigration policy plays a large role in forcing talented people who have decided to join our country to…

Not sure why you refer to the US immigration policy, this is how it works essentially everywhere. In the UK, for example, you get around 60 days to find a new job or you have to leave the country. https://iasservices.org.uk/tier-2-visa-termination-employmen... I am not saying that the immigration policy is not broken or broken, I am simply stating the fact that other countries literally do the same.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#278

Post by albertopv »

If it was me, I wouldn't have lasted so long. No way. I worked for mid size companies, and I found envs quite toxic, but this is a whole new level for me. I'm glad I decided a long time ago my life worths more than working at any $faang.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#279

Post by throwaway_1237 »

This rings so true! I interviewed for a few different teams at Apple and got an offer from one (they make you choose a team before you get an offer). There were echos of nepotism, scapegoating, and toxic treatment even during the interview process. Based on the answers I got during the “ask us some questions” portion at the end of each interview, it seemed like a very political and tense environment for a few of the interviewers. Thank you for sharing, this validated that I made the right choice. I’m sorry you had to go through this.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#280

Post by abdabab »

someonehere wrote: post #232

I worked for Apple retail in San Francisco. Being an early retail employee in the Bay Area, we had very close ties to Cupertino. I worked when Steve was still alive. * Retail management in my store ruled by fear. I heard from other stores across the US this was the same as well. * Promotions were handed out to those who kissed ass the hardest. Even if they were unqualified or cheated on promotion exams, if they brown…

You can sense it when you walk into an Apple store. I met a few unnecessarily rude salesperson and wondered how or why they were still there.
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