Why isn't Netherlands mentioned btw? What semiconductors companies did Germany , France and Spain built so far? Netherlands has ASML, NXP and ASM...
ST Microelectronics, merger of French and Italian nationalized semiconductor industries.
EU countries team up for semiconductor push
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Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#272Why isn't Netherlands mentioned btw? What semiconductors companies did Germany , France and Spain built so far? Netherlands has ASML, NXP and ASM...
Perhaps that's the point? If NL feels like they already have an effective domestic industry for their needs, there is no need to sign-on and invest resources here.
However, for these other countries, they have concerns that are not strictly economic, but also related to national security and economic flexibility.
I don't know their plans, but I wouldn't be surprised if a pragmatic solution wouldn't be to co-invest in domestic fab facilities with existing incumbents who agree to comply with domestic interests as relates to sourcing, labor practices, IP sharing, local hiring, training, and environment controls.
It doesn't necessarily mean "spend money to beat TSMC at the tip of the spear". I mean, at least, I hope it wouldn't. Not at first.
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#273Why isn't Netherlands mentioned btw? What semiconductors companies did Germany , France and Spain built so far? Netherlands has ASML, NXP and ASM...
>What semiconductors companies did Germany , France and Spain built so far? German companies like Zeiss build parts for e.g. ASML.
Probably true, but that would make Tesla and Apple Chinese then...
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think GP's point is that when you consider their output they're really not the bigger names.
Perhaps it's because at least in NXP's case the reason why headquarters are there and not somewhere else is that the Netherlands are a tax haven for IP-heavy companies.
Maybe true, a lot of NXP projects actually happen in Austria for example
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly my thought, ST Microelectronics is producing microchips in Grenoble, France, not far from where I live. And ST Micro chips are heavenly used in IOT. Maybe it's more than the semiconductor sector and includes telecommunications, networks equipment, phone/pc CPUs.
There is no need for advanced nodes for micro-controllers. Typically even advanced µC use 40nm, planar, where the TSMC leading node is 5nm FinFET. ST also does FD-SOI 22nm if I remember well, but that's the densest node they have and nowhere near the current state of the art at TSMC. The thing is, micro-controllers do not need advanced nodes. They don't have a lot of logic (it's all relative, but compared to a PC CPU…
> micro-controllers do not need advanced nodes...They don't have a lot of logic
Why MCU-bound application logic are simpler than PC apps? If that is the case, we shouldn't have seen improvement in embedded MCUs in 20 years, yet every year the clocks are increasing, the flash/RAM size is doubling, ... I have a theory/fear that in future, the line between embedded-dev and web-dev would be blurred...
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe the Mill? https://millcomputing.com/ edit: added link.
Sounds like Transmeta. Anyway, these alternative/exotic computing models also remember flops like the old Transputers. But it is necessary to invest in those anyway.
While the Transputers vanished eventually, their legacy is living in absolutely all modern multi-socket workstations and servers.
The Transputer method of partitioning a multiprocessor system, into processor chips provided with memory interfaces (now DDR), I/O interfaces (now PCIe) and communication interfaces for interconnections with the other processors, instead of using shared buses as before, was revived in some later DEC Alpha CPUs, then it was used in AMD Opteron (many AMD designers came from DEC Alpha), and then it was adopted by Intel (in Nehalem) and by everybody else.
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#277Government incompetence at the highest level!
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
Central Europe actually
For the unaware, Central Europe is a narrow band that comprises Czechs, Slovaks and Polish. Who can get very offended if you even dare to suggest that they belong to Eastern Europe.
The term "Central Europe" makes sense when talking about stuff common to Central Europe, in particular Germany. Otherwise, the term you want here is Eastern Europe.
And yes, there is this particular kind of people who feel offended by this. Largely the same people who get offended by gay marriage. Why should we care?
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#279Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#280So, as someone who used to be an engineer in semiconductor manufacturing facilities, this reminds me a lot of Sematech. That was a joint venture between American companies in the 90's, when there was a concern that we were falling behind Japan. I'm sure there will be people who try to claim otherwise, but my view from inside AMD (at that time still doing its own manufacturing) was that nothing much ever came out of S…
With the success of Apple M1, TSMC and Samsung will grow faster than Intel. Taiwan,Korea,Japan and US will control the semiconductor industry in the near future unless a game changing technology is introduced. Taiwan semiconductor companies's stocks are going banana after US slap sanction on SMIC. UMC stock has not changed much in years jumped 250% in last few weeks. (UMC invented foundry as service, then TSMC copy them)