Read this and it made me recall:
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/donglegate-adria-richa...
AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
271–280 of 926 posts
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#272> And you are told after a while, that your manager can read you a privileged and confidential document and you’re not supposed to even know who contributed to this document, who wrote this feedback, what process was followed or anything Interesting. Having been on the receiving end of a (later proven to be bogus) HR complaint, this is exactly how it was handled. I was forced to respond to allegations where neither t…
I remember that I read somewhere (maybe here on HN) years ago that HR is like the secret police of police states. Nobody willingfully talks to them, except their bosses. The dynamics of this incident, the secrecy, the lack of care about people, enforce that metaphor.
I wonder what People Ops is, something more about logistics maybe. Still paid by the company, so it can't be on the side of employees.
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#273These things seem to play out like clockwork. Progressive companies hire social justice warriors into vague ethics or policy roles, let them hire their activist friends, shower them with fast track careers and promotions. It's good optics, the progressives like it because it makes them feel better about working at big techs. Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to…
It really is the same story every time, isn't it? They always flame out of the company with some over complicated victim story because the company had the nerve to not 100% buy in to their non-optional radical demands. It has become an archetype at this point.
The archetype expands beyond this particular instance of company/employee, as well. It's something we've been seeing play itself out across the world culturally and politically.
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#274Being fired for this sort of thing sucks. This also sounds like an opportunity for an awesome person to spread their wings now they're out from under what sounds like a pretty oppressive system
She claims to be a leading researcher in the field, but has she written any significant papers or research of note? Her biggest accomplishment seems to be driving Yann LeCunn off Twitter with angry accusations. She tried to continue her power trip at a workplace but her boss called her bluff. This is a great firing for Google. She won’t be missed.
> Her biggest accomplishment seems to be driving Yann LeCunn off Twitter...
Umm, among the other issues with your post, Yann LeCunn last tweeted 12 hours ago...
https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1334409408537825282
("she turned me into a Newt!")
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#275These things seem to play out like clockwork. Progressive companies hire social justice warriors into vague ethics or policy roles, let them hire their activist friends, shower them with fast track careers and promotions. It's good optics, the progressives like it because it makes them feel better about working at big techs. Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to…
Can you really call them toxic and disruptive when they're doing exactly the thing they were told they were hired for? Companies hire activists because they want to look good without actually changing things. Activists go to work for companies because they want to change things. So, naturally, the company has to lie to the activist about their function to do this, and the activist has to be naive about it. If the act…
I'm with you on this one; a company can't hire an activist and expect that person to not commit activism. Of course, a pessimistic person might say "it just makes it easier to fire them for 'just cause'", making the company sound good going into and out of the employment agreement.
"Look how awesome this activist is we're hiring," easily becomes "Look how unreasonable this employee is we're firing."
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#276So odd, why does google employ these researchers? Isn't it obvious it's just a vacuous PR stunt?
What self respecting researcher gives his name to a corporate entity and expects anything but being used to woke-wash the company?
This is a silly communion that puts both sides to shame.
Late stage capitalism is such a circus.
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think modern HR policy really works like that. If one person complains to their HRBP that the speech or actions of another person at the company makes them feel personally attacked, derogated, or establishes a hostile work environment then the company will be forced to take that matter to the second person. HR isn't looking to setup an Oxford debate between persons A and B. They are required to resolve the ho…
Sure but HR wouldn't share the feedback on her paper and give her an opportunity to update it. Instead they demanded that she retract the paper. How is it fair or standard to make someone retract a paper because of anonymous and secret criticisms that the researcher isn't even given a chance to address?
That's just how HR works. It's there to protect the business. They get a complaint and a bunch of HR people and lawyers decide what needs to happen, and then they make it happen. It's not a debating society.
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#278One thing I learn each day on HN is that software practitioners need more ethics lessons, it's sad that it's so hard for some folks to open their mind enough to understand why this isn't just some "rabble rouser" causing drama. Ethics in software, especially AI, are severely lacking in the present day.
Recognizing that all people are, well, people would be a good first step on the road to ensuring that we dont all not become paperclips, right?
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
Her research work is well-known and has had an impact, whether you like it or not: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Timnit+gebru Edit: And to be clear, her most cited paper (> 1000 citations) had an impact on what some companies did: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21284683/ibm-no-longer-gen... What is disturbing here, from a researcher's point of view (even within a company!), is the lack of transparency on wh…
It seems plausible that a key result of her research (likely including the unnamed paper which she was asked to retract) is driving change in policy and social opinion that is apparently considered harmful to Google, so the research does not add value to Google , it benefits others (e.g. particular underprivileged groups) but just imposes extra restrictions and costs to her employer. Industry research is not academia…
Sure, companies may have interests in some areas and not others, but it is counterproductive and even irritating if the company does not clearly communicate what the areas of interest are and which are not. An order to retract without explanation is rude and counterproductive.
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#280I think this link does a nice job of contextualizing at least part of the situation. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-03/google-s-...
I’ve been at companies where I’m faced with an approval process before publishing research to the outside world. It can be quite stressful, especially in the face of holidays and impending deadlines.
However I guarantee that if anyone had a problem with the work, they would take the time to tell me why.
And it would happen without untitled meetings or unrelated email drama.
They might even work with me to fix the problem because they’re my coworkers and that’s what it means to work together in a normal workplace where people respect each other as colleagues.
Sadly every piece of publicity related to Google and its workers makes me want to work there less and less...