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Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses

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Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses

#271

Post by sergeykish »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #58
grenoire wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is too much information around for the average person to filter and process and digest. All three are important parts of living in a society and it looks to me like even with e.g. economic issues alone, it's just very hard for (to be fair) anybody to keep up. In turn, people reach out to conspiracy theories to simplify the world around them with obvious answers and explanations. My theory, sort of.

Yeah that crossed my mind as well. People who have so little understanding of the mechanics behind it all that they think it's impossible we've put anything in Earth orbit - how could ANYONE understand that? In one case though I had someone say that I wasn't hitting satellites, I was hitting a solar-powered high altitude plane. When I pointed out that it would have to be going at 23 times the speed of sound at sea le…

People often shut their minds if you try to prove they are wrong. It is much easier to ask to stop topic.

And truth often is boring. It is only one. At first I've told my son only truth how it works (Feynman style). Now I engage in making fantasies (Diskworld style). I present all fantasies (theories) as equal, some can be constructed by physics laws. The game is to find which one. All sorts of interesting questions arise.

What is the difference between plane and satellite?

Can airplane flew that fast through air?

Is meteor burning? What is its speed?

> 120,000 km

That's third of a distance to the moon. Not sure how you got it

Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses

#272

Post by 29athrowaway »

randcraw wrote: post #263
29athrowaway wrote: post #256

The cost of publishing and barrier of entry to publishing is now lower. Therefore the attention that would usually go to high quality content is now being spent in very low quality content.

It's also easier than ever to publish, so we're surely seeing the effect of putting less time and effort into speaking out. At the same time, the rise in political and social polarization especially in America rewards choosing sides and expressing emotion-driven opinion in order to to bond with your home boys. This practice has never been more evident than it is today, in an election year dominated by a prez candidat…

By cost of publishing I mean effort involved in creating content to be published as well.

Conspiracy theories thrive when credibility and authority are not required to publish: flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, government related conspiracies, aristocracy related conspiracies...

People being able to post anything also facilitates "online mob justice", when people mistakenly arrive to the conclusion that certain entity is responsible for whatever they consider unfair.

Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses

#273

Post by dgb23 »

onecommentman wrote: post #238
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think social media companies are deliberately promoting stupid and blatantly wrong beliefs. It's good for engagement. If you've ever watched someone be completely wrong about something you know a lot about, you know how strong the urge to correct them is. On social media, promoting clearly wrong beliefs and ideas (Flat Earth, for instance) is good for business because people will similarly jump in to correct…

Maybe social media are just tapping into the human need to have “fools” on the stage. It’s a pretty universal archetype. Silly fools, wise fools, serendipitous fools. Only the Jester can speak truth to the King sort of thing. Been around so long in so many places that it has to be useful for human culture...

Interesting take, although It can be the other way around as well. Both the fool and this social media behavior come from a motivation to distract from our own weaknesses, by pointing fingers at something else.

Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses

#274

Post by Ygg2 »

dahart wrote: post #220
anewguy9000 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually, my friend, the median iq is still 100 - any way you slice it :/

Have you ever heard of the Flynn Effect? IQ tests are being renormalized. Today's 100 may be last year's 99. Average IQs have gone up ~15 points since ~1950. Some evidence of slowing or reversing in the last 20 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Not slowing down. Pretty sure reverse Flynn effect has been observed.

Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses

#275

Post by Joeri »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #33

Counterintuitively, people love reading about and engaging in what they consider "stupidity". Internet companies capitalize on this by bringing an optimized stream of stupidity for your viewing pleasure. Take a look at the front page of Reddit (logged out, default subs): Half of the content highlights stupidity of others: /r/IdiotsInCars shows the worst drivers from around the world, /r/insanepeoplefacebook shows the…

I think COVID quarantine has worsened this, as people are getting even more of their worldview through social media feeds instead of actually interacting with people in the real world.

I think COVID is causing it, but in a much simpler way: by increasing stress levels which increases fast system thinking. Globalization and the rising pace of change have increased global stress levels over the past decades, which has caused people to take a defensive mental stance, do more fast system thinking and be less open minded. You saw the same shift towards extreme politics throughout the world, which for me means it is not about the issues, but about how people feel. COVID turned that dial up to 11. I see people freaking out in many small ways, and they mostly don’t seem to be aware they’re suffering from anxiety and it is affecting their thought process.

Social media is the cherry on top. When you are in the fast system thinking mode, it helps you to stay there. Selection bias, shallow interactions, shallow depth of information, all things that increase as you engage more with social media. That makes it more toxic to people already under stress. These people then are able to find each other online, form vocal groups and try to spread their anxiety around. And that’s how it can appear like things are getting worse while mostly they’ve never been better. And how it can seem like people are getting more stupid while really they’re getting more stressed.

Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses

#276

Post by sergeykish »

randcraw wrote: post #248
olladecarne wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you look at the brain as a neural network then it's easy to see how this happens. Not everyone is born to educated parents and receives high quality education. If a lot of the information your brain received growing up was bad, then you can easily reach bad conclusions. The collapse of institutions makes it worse because now no one trusts anything. So to many the information on the internet is as valid as…

Yeah, I think our schools have long done US students a disservice in underemphasizing “information quality” — how to deal with incomplete, ambiguous, questionable, and bad info. A very large fraction of tests in school reinforce that every question has only one right answer. The notion of minimizing error is seldom even imagined. Instead it's taught that all learning must seek only one goal: “knowing the one and only…

Aristotle’s Physics is a good example how common sense ridiculed in our society while it

> is to be properly understood as the physics of objects immersed in a fluid, air or water [1]

Kindergarten children can engage in physics, construct their theories. And only much later learn that space bodies move differently and how that knowledge can be applied to the world around us.

Trust experiment not authority.

[1] Aristotle’s Physics: a Physicist’s Look https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/157866135.pdf

Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses

#277

Post by sergeykish »

rocqua wrote: post #52
TallGuyShort wrote: post #32

I've engaged a few flat earthers to actually listen to their arguments and show them my own evidence that it's real (locating amateur radio satellites using data shared by people around the globe and demonstrating the doppler effect on them). The response strikes me as being indicative of mental illness. And I don't mean that as an insult - I mean that when confronted with that they're clearly irrational. And somethi…

I don't think that acting weirdly when confronted with your own irrationality is a sign of mental illness. Accepting that you were wrong is generally a hard thing. Admitting to someone else that you were wrong is similarly hard. If you get totally and irrefutably proven wrong by someone you are having a heated argument with, that is doubly hard. In order to respond correctly you need to, within a very short time-span…

But why has one "felt was attacking you" and was "angry"? It is about arguments not personalities. Better be wrong than ignorant.

Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses

#278

Post by joe_the_user »

NoPicklez wrote: post #249
TallGuyShort wrote: post #32

I've engaged a few flat earthers to actually listen to their arguments and show them my own evidence that it's real (locating amateur radio satellites using data shared by people around the globe and demonstrating the doppler effect on them). The response strikes me as being indicative of mental illness. And I don't mean that as an insult - I mean that when confronted with that they're clearly irrational. And somethi…

My opinion is this is due to a reduced level of trust that we place in either each other or large companies/organisations. It is known among the business industry that trust is lower than it was historically. Companies and people are increasingly seeming to engage in shadier and shadier practices, or we're becoming more aware of it. This erodes the level of trust we place in each other, research bodies, governments,…

In addition, where someone with an extremist view might be considered an outgroup, historically their views might have been suppressed among their peers or shutdown. Now they can engage online with thousands if not millions of other people who believe in the same out group ideas, potentially strengthening their view point.

Not only that but those with out-group positions are great for those with agendas and willing to play along. Anti-vaxers are fodder for anyone looking for angry nuts to turn loose on their enemies etc.

Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses

#279

Post by 082349872349872 »

joe_the_user wrote: post #278
NoPicklez wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion is this is due to a reduced level of trust that we place in either each other or large companies/organisations. It is known among the business industry that trust is lower than it was historically. Companies and people are increasingly seeming to engage in shadier and shadier practices, or we're becoming more aware of it. This erodes the level of trust we place in each other, research bodies, governments,…

In addition, where someone with an extremist view might be considered an outgroup, historically their views might have been suppressed among their peers or shutdown. Now they can engage online with thousands if not millions of other people who believe in the same out group ideas, potentially strengthening their view point. Not only that but those with out-group positions are great for those with agendas and willing t…

> anyone looking for angry nuts to turn loose on their enemies

Compare https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24786278

(although he puts his cutoff point at 25% of the angriest part of the population, with no value judgements on nuts. In the age of social media, it ought to be easy enough to generate memes along the lines of his survey questions to see who forwards them.)

Re: Is Stupidity Expanding? Some Hypotheses

#280

Post by bleepblorp »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #33

Counterintuitively, people love reading about and engaging in what they consider "stupidity". Internet companies capitalize on this by bringing an optimized stream of stupidity for your viewing pleasure. Take a look at the front page of Reddit (logged out, default subs): Half of the content highlights stupidity of others: /r/IdiotsInCars shows the worst drivers from around the world, /r/insanepeoplefacebook shows the…

I wonder if there's a 'shit rolls downhill' dynamic to the popularity of mockery content on Reddit.

Reddit's demographics skew very young, which means it's mostly used by people who have very little socioeconomic standing. People at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder are subject to significant arbitrary humiliation at the hands of others (all entry-level jobs suck; so does being a student) and have no tools with which to fight back. People who are in this situation are likely to find catharsis in finding ways to see themselves--no matter how bad their personal situation is--as at least one step above someone else (hence the popularity of subs like /r/insanepeoplefacebook) and seeing abusive people being given their just rewards in ways the average Reddit reader cannot get away with (hence, the popularity of subs like /r/instantkarma).

I also wonder if there's a correlation between preferences for mockery content and the rigidity of social hierarchies in different countries. Japan, for instance, has a very rigid social hierarchy (meaning most people are subject to arbitrary abuse) and they had an entire genre of mainstream humiliation TV[0]. I'd be surprised if this kind of content is as popular in countries with flatter social hierarchies where sociopathic behavior directed at subordinates is less acceptable.

[0] https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/japanese-game-shows_n_45...

(As an aside, I haven't looked at Reddit's default subs for many years and it's shocking that they've crawled that far down into the clickbait gutter.)

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