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YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

reuters.com

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Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#271

Post by makomk »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #196
onion2k wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My issue is that why did US health officials say masks were not effective against respiratory infections, when health officials from Asian countries had deemed them effective. Because Asian countries were basing their advice on science and the US was basing the advice on what would poll well with Republican voters who believe individual freedom is more important than community welfare. The US absolutely did have acce…

> Because Asian countries were basing their advice on science and the US was basing the advice on what would poll well with Republican voters who believe individual freedom is more important than community welfare. It was the WHO who repeatedly stated that healthy people shouldn't wear masks, or close borders for that matter, and most politicians across the world didn't question that. And why would they, it's the job…

Of note, all the stuff about border closures making things worse was 100% politically motivated bullshit with no foundation in science - even the New York Times ended up admitting it: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/world/europe/ski-party-pa... (What they don't admit to, but was really obvious at the time, is that in the US it was driven in part by anti-Trump politics - the press quite openly associated it with all his other border policies they hated, there was a piece of pre-pandemic fiction about Trump frantically closing all the borders to stop a disease that was already in the US that circulated all over social media as a supposedly prophetic warning, and I think Biden's campaign even pushed the idea that Trump's travel restrictions made things worse after that NYT piece came out. Of course, in reality it was actually the whole of Europe who ended up frantically closing all their borders far too late, whilst the US stuck to targeted and relatively timely travel restrictions - if I recall correctly, pretty much the exact opposite of the "prophetic" anti-Trump fiction.)

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#272

Post by dalbasal »

owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

Let's call some spades.

>>I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However...

The first spade is free speech itself. Neither the custom nor the law applies to YouTube. In theory, it's a private site that chooses what videos it shows. In practice, youtube is a newly powerful monopoly. Both YouTube and Alphabet. There's a tension here.

In 2020 reality, political freedoms such as speech, association and even religion are realized on Google, facebook and co. When a politician or activist speaks to voters, it's on youtube. Whether or not breastfeeding is obscene is a Youtube decision. This isn't absolute, but it is to a large and increasing extent true. Your freedom of speech is violated in all but the most technical sense when fb, twitter, and/or youtube shut your mouth.

Social media is not a market, or marketplace of ideas. At best its a strip mall where two jovial consortiums own all the stores. This is the place where people decide to vote for X, that the virus is a hoax, or that climate change is real. It's at the heart of freedom of speech.

The second spade you called out well. These sites are corruptible and corrupted. Malicious misinformation spreads well here. This is already causing societal harm. They did this.

Another spade is reality regardless. I'm pretty confident that more, less powerful players, open protocols and such would be serving us better. This wouldn't have fixed everything though. Shared narratives have to be enforced somehow: culture, religion, media. If everyone is on a different stream, the shared narrative is broken. This would probably be true regardless of monopoly, though I think the consequences would be less severe.

Shared narratives are not necessarily true. Truth is not necessarily known, or necessarily in Google's best interest at any given time. In fact, truth is expensive. Formal truth seeking systems are the legal system, scientific method, drug approval process...

Going down this path means that Youtube (also fb, twitter) will be deciding and implementing the shared narrative. Religion? How about cults? Fringe activists? How about fringey elected politicians.

The final spade is inevitabilities.

These aren't could bes. The really hot current issues (eg the pandemic) are also hot political and even religious issues. This isn't nudity, which works as a canary for freedom of speech. This goes to the heart of political life on day 1.

Gotta make the star wars warning. The galactic republic fell to raucous applause. Chaos, and the need to suppress it.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#273

Post by owlbynight »

3np wrote: post #250
keiferski wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is decentralized, verifiable forms of authority. Not unelected, unaccountable corporations that selectively (and with repeated obvious bias) choose what is “true.” Especially not YouTube, of all places, who has about as much authority as McDonalds, as far as I’m concerned. That’s it. No attempt to have a single source of authoritative information is going to work post-Internet. The cat is already out of…

This. YouTube should be free to allow or block any content they want on their privately owned and permissions platform. At the same time, no company should have the power to decide what content can be shared and spread. It’s all of our responsibilities to take back the power we always had and give it back to individuals. The other their is through open protocols through decentralized / federated permissionless infras…

But how do you take the power back? How do you yell shark and get people to listen when they've been desensitized by an ocean full of fake sharks?

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#274

Post by samoa42 »

gitrog wrote: post #217
roenxi wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning everyone who disagrees with the current state of the science is also not how science works; and yet YouTube is going to attempt (and fail) to do just that. YouTube is almost certainly going to be banning literal doctors with actual PHDs from expressing scientific opinions which later turn out to be substantiated. The article says this ban includes material that "explicitly disputes health authorities’ guidanc…

> YouTube is almost certainly going to be banning literal doctors with actual PHDs from expressing scientific opinions which later turn out to be substantiated. To be fair, Youtube shouldn't be the platform where doctors express their scientific opinion or try to win over support.

agreed. how do we change it thou without dumpstering "free" video hosting?

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#275

Post by [deleted] »

abellerose wrote: post #86
brink wrote: post #74

It's only a matter of time until certain unpopular religious expressions begin to be censored outright. For those who aren't concerned about censorship; it must be nice to think that your views will never be controversial.

Nothing ever good has come from religion. So not a very good example you have there.

[deleted]

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#276

Post by konjin »

stkdump wrote: post #264
konjin wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad someone spreading lies like that will be ever banned from youtube.

Did you even watch the video? 1. He says there is no need to wear masks in public "at this time". 2. He says there is no evidence that masks protect you against infections (which is of course something that can and did change over time) 3. He mentioned that touching your face can be dangerous, not that wearing masks increases the risk. I don't think anyone disputed this then or now. That is something else than people…

Have you had to deal with youtube moderation?

Moderators watching videos is optional.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#277

Post by jonathanstrange »

spuz wrote: post #191
owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

I'd be interested to know what your thoughts are on the UK and German models of "free speech" where no one has an absolute right to say what they want - certain subjects such as Holocaust denial or promotion of terrorism are banned. You could argue that we have been on a slippery slope for a long time but you could equally argue the slippery slope is a fallacy. I think it's important to think about what the actual pu…

The German model is not substantially different from the US model, US freedom of speech is mostly lip service and there are plenty of related laws that can and will be applied against free speech in the US such as laws against terrorism and laws against obscenity. One major difference is that Nazis are more protected in the US than in many other countries. This has purely historical reasons, though. Mainland US was never occupied by Nazis, so consequently it also was never "de-nazified".

However, if you're a communist or an ISIS sympathizer or want to publicly display some nipples you won't necessarily have more free speech in the US than in Germany.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#278

Post by keiferski »

owlbynight wrote: post #268
keiferski wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is decentralized, verifiable forms of authority. Not unelected, unaccountable corporations that selectively (and with repeated obvious bias) choose what is “true.” Especially not YouTube, of all places, who has about as much authority as McDonalds, as far as I’m concerned. That’s it. No attempt to have a single source of authoritative information is going to work post-Internet. The cat is already out of…

Is this solution possible with misinformation campaigns being waged against it from its inception? I'm not disagreeing with you on an ideological level, but this solution is pie in the sky. How do you propose this solution be enacted while the supporters it would need to come to fruition are actively being lobbied by the problem its supposed to solve?

I think it will occur naturally over the next few decades. Each misstep that Big Tech / Big Media makes chips off a tiny sliver of their edifice. Over time this will splinter into a thousand pieces, and some attempt to unify information across them will be invented and adopted.

It’s easy to forget that the modern Internet itself is only about thirty years old. We’re still at the very, very early stages.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#280

Post by joshuapark »

owlbynight wrote: post #174

I'll preface this by stating that I hate the idea of censorship and I always have. However, were I to happen across someone motionless on the floor with a needle in their arm, I would give them NARCAN instead of a ride to a rehab center. I'm from the United States. Social media is currently poisoning our country to a degree that I think it may be too late to try and draw out the fight for free speech by using free sp…

A war for democracy would be fighting to give everyone a voice, even to those who you disagree with. Remember:

- Those who sacrifice freedom for security, deserve neither.

We shouldn't sacrifice freedom allowing platforms to censor people.

Annoys me the bullshit on youtube on all levels, but I don't want any platform removing the right of those people to say their ideas. People can have bots, but they will never be as strong as normal users. For example, 1mi bots giving likes to a video pro-nazism, this will trend and 1mi users will downvote it :) considering the platform that youtube is, 1mi real users is almost nothing.

Also someone disagreeing with you don't mean that this person is stupid/dumb/lack critical thinking, this is a quite common thing nowadays, consider everyone who think different to be wrong and dumb, instead of analysing that most of the things break down to social, personal and moral values, which differ from people, cultures, and so on...

So let the real democracy happen and downvote what you don't like or don't approve, upvote what you endorse, etc...

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