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Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

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Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#271

This is a bit unfortunate, because the kindle paperwhite is just phenomenal. It's easy on my eyes and it's a godsend for traveling. I suppose the solution here is to just keep it in offline mode when not syncing books. [edit] as others have noted, it's possible to permanently use offline mode, and transfer books via usb cable. > Unfortunately, in order to use a non-Kindle application, I have to buy DRM-Free books. On…

>One can remove DRM for amazon's ebook format (.azw3 ?) via some python scripts. You didn't hear it from me though.

Not for the new KFX format. Only way to get around that is to use an older version of the kindle desktop app that downloads the azw format. Workaround won't last long though. And won't work on newer macs because the old version is a 32bit app .

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#272
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As many people here have echoed - this boils down to the fact the data is being captured without an opt out. I don't doubt the developers are using it for 'morally acceptable' purposes, but I don't trust Amazon not to abuse that data later down the line! I really don't feel that anyone needs to know precisely what pages I have viewed in a specific book.

Agree. Opt out at the minimum. How did software and features ever get done before telemetry? Efficiency is not always the best humanistic approach. So maybe they support unused features and maybe they let some features wither that lots of people like. Maybe it would make things cost a little more. I think people would be ok with some of those inefficiencies.

>How did software and features ever get done before telemetry?

IMHO, The software today is miles better at UX.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#273
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think companies should loudly advertise something people don’t care about? That doesn’t make sense. Plenty of companies are quite transparent about their data collection practices (set up an Apple device recently?) Most people are aware of data collection, they care more about functionality though.

>Plenty of companies are quite transparent about their data collection practices (set up an Apple device recently?) I have not, not recently, but what you say is simply bullshit. They're "transparent" in that they give you a ToS loaded with legalese that they know you couldn't easily read through to find just how much and where they're squeezing your life for information to store. In cases where they simplify this wi…

This isn’t buried in a tos or legalese

https://www.groundctl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/csm_IMG...

Apple prompts you for each piece of data collection during the setup of an iOS device (and lets you choose if you want to share).

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for clarification -- is this something that actually turns off the collection itself? I'm seeing conflicting things online that range from "just hit this toggle and you're good", to "you can disable some of it, but not all", to "this only opts out of data processing for ads/analytics". If there really is an option to disable the collection entirely, then that would mitigate a large number of the problems I have…

Kindles have airplane mode and allow you to load books onto them using the USB connection. The battery also lasts somewhat longer if you use them that way. Amazon directly offers a "Download & Transfer via USB" option for ebooks you purchase in their store, as well -- this is a relatively well-supported use case. It does mean that if you want to be absolutely sure your Kindle isn't phoning home, you can't use the Kin…

I've done this. Mine has been in aeroplane mode since the day I got it. I seem to remember having to allow it to connect to Amazon once when I first took it out of the box, but since then, no network connectivity at all, and zero problems as a result. It's been great.

I download the ebooks themselves using the Kindle application on my computer (if I'm using Amazon to get them, which I don't always), and then use Calibre to manage/import/convert/strip DRM from them. I don't need the sync functionality, or to be able to look things up on the internet (not being able to do that is a feature as far as I'm concerned!). I just want text on a page. I like the "e-reader" experience, and I have no desire to read books on a phone or tablet. I have one Kindle, and it comes with me if I think I'm going to have the opportunity to read when I'm out of the house.

Of course, if you're using Amazon to get your books they'll still build a profile of your reading habits, but there's something about tracking the exact parts of a book I'm reading, the bits I might linger on or reread, which feels extra intrusive to me, and which I categorically don't want.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#275
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kindle e-readers do offer an opt-out from the metrics collection. It can be triggered from the website or the device itself. That it's an opt-out and not opt-in is not a good thing, but it can be opted out of on the e-readers.

What are the steps to do this?

On my kindle Oasis:

- Go to the homescreen

- Open the hamburger menu

- Tap settings

- Device Options

- Advanced Options

- Privacy

- Disable

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As many people here have echoed - this boils down to the fact the data is being captured without an opt out. I don't doubt the developers are using it for 'morally acceptable' purposes, but I don't trust Amazon not to abuse that data later down the line! I really don't feel that anyone needs to know precisely what pages I have viewed in a specific book.

That data allows users to pick up where they left off as they change devices. I rely on that regularly as I use both my phone and a Kindle device to read books.

So you should turn those features on. It doesn't mean I should have to tolerate it by default.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As many people here have echoed - this boils down to the fact the data is being captured without an opt out. I don't doubt the developers are using it for 'morally acceptable' purposes, but I don't trust Amazon not to abuse that data later down the line! I really don't feel that anyone needs to know precisely what pages I have viewed in a specific book.

The kindle e-readers do offer an opt-out from the metrics collection. It can be triggered from the website or the device itself. That it's an opt-out and not opt-in is not a good thing, but it can be opted out of on the e-readers.

OK well that's something. An opt-in would be preferred but that's much better than nothing.

Is it confirmed though that these network requests definitely stop after that is switched?

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea analytics like this are really what I find to be so important, as a developer. How much time and frustration do I potentially waste on something that no one ends up using? Things like this are very useful and it's strange to me that people aren't sympathetic to that perspective.

It's strange to you people care more about their autonomy than your convenience? Telemetry can tell you what users are doing. It doesn't tell you why.

I'm saying as someone who works in software I empathize with the idea of spending lots of time implementing a feature, tearing hair out over some technical issue, etc. only to realize no one uses that feature.

I'd rather people be able to opt-in, but conceptually I'm not really upset that people can see my usage patterns, etc.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mention that the data that appears to be used for those purposes is sent again in a separate request to a separate end point, so we have two types of requests: last read location, and reading analytics. Sorry it wasn't clear, I'll try to improve the wording.

Will you also be updating and noting that the requests to Wikipedia and Bing are for explicit customer-benefiting features? Might be worth noting that you can opt out of their data collection (on the e-reader, at a minimum) as well. Settings > Device Options > Advanced Options > Privacy or in the device management console in your account on amazon.com

> Might be worth noting that you can opt out of their data collection (on the e-reader, at a minimum) as well. Settings > Device Options > Advanced Options > Privacy or in the device management console in your account on amazon.com

Good tip, I'm going to give this a whirl. Unfortunately, all the network calls add a significant amount of latency even if one didn't care about privacy.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#280
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Privacy LARPers This is an unnecessarily denigrating term at this point in the conversation. It's not LARPing to want to be able to read a book or take notes without being tracked.

> It's not LARPing to want to be able to read a book or take notes without being tracked. Absolutely agree but it is LARPing to pretend this collection is for anything but improving a product. Nobody is out to get you and nobody particularly cares how often you specifically turn the page (the data is useful in aggregate).

Kindle's privacy FAQ[0] says:

> We also use it to develop and improve products and features for all our customers and to gain insights into how our products are being used, assess customer engagement, identify potential quality issues, analyze our business, and customize marketing offers.

Targeted marketing is, in itself, something that's reasonable for someone to want to block regardless of whether or not there's a mustached villain tracking you. Privacy is about more than stalkers, it's about the effects of data usage. For some people, targeted advertising is a harm regardless of whether or not the company knows their name.

To go a step farther, I also don't understand why it's LARPing to be worried about a company who is actively being investigated for misusing seller data.

I bring this up every time that one of these threads/stories gets posted, but there's (appologies, but for lack of a better word) some kind of weird gaslighting that always happens in these situations. Before it broke that Echo and Siri queries were sometimes listened to by 3rd-party contractors, if I had posted that suspicion on HN people would have called me paranoid. Once the story broke, the argument then shifted to, "well of course they're doing that, how else would you improve the service?" That kind of thinking applies to Amazon as well.

I don't know that it's likely, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Amazon might use this information in the future to help target pirates, change book rankings on their store, perform highly targeted advertising and book recommendations, or turn it over during government subpoenas. Those are completely reasonable usages that their privacy policy leaves them permission to do.

Similarly, I don't know that it's likely, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that this information might get sent to 3rd parties with less responsible data practices, or that employees might be given direct access to it in an unobfuscated form[1]. It's not something I'm losing sleep over, but I wouldn't be shocked to my core if someday all this information got leaked publicly and correlated to people's email addresses.

These are all situations where privacy matters regardless of the original intention. The "I only want to make my service better" defense applies to basically all data collection that most companies do. Even advertisers use that defense. It's reasonable for people to want to avoid being a part of that.

Of course, it's also reasonable for people not to care, to say that hacking is a risk they're willing to live with, and that they don't mind targeted ads, and that the books they read aren't sensitive. But it's not LARPing if someone has a different opinion on whether or not they want to tolerate that stuff.

[0]: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

[1]: See, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/12/12/creepy-net.... Is it LARPing for me to be weirded out by a marketing department trolling over my reading/listening/watching habits looking for viral tweet material?

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