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Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

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Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#271

Post by HenryKissinger »

honkycat wrote: post #233
readingnews wrote: post #211

There is a crossfit gym that I pass by every morning on the way to work. It is full, and never stopped during this pandemic. Even at 7AM, it is full of patrons. I would call the "proper authorities", but since there is a State Police car parked outside every morning, and he is in there working out, just like before the pandemic, I doubt calling anyone would do anything. Adding to the post, I read it earlier... it is…

Introverts vs extroverts. Humans are social animals. Socialization is a basic human need. It is much harder for some people to stay inside and not socialize than others. We are now on month 7 of being told to not socialize or see or do anything. I continue to obey the orders, but I totally get why some people are starting to crack.

> Socialization is a basic human need.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#272

Post by baddox »

reaperducer wrote: post #118
stagger87 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do essential workers all have to be valued on an equal basis as firefighters, doctors, etc? How are you measuring value?

Why do essential workers all have to be valued on an equal basis as firefighters, doctors, etc? Because that's what the word "essential" means: Things you can't do without. Not "things I really really really like." How are you measuring value? People who save lives > people who don't save lives.

> Things you can't do without.

This gets tricky. Of course we know that when there's a fire, a firefighter is often imminently essential. But it's trickier to imagine a society where all "non-essential" jobs are banned indefinitely. You wouldn't die in a matter of minutes like in the fire example, but you'd also probably find such a society unrecognizable to the extent that you might reconsider what types of jobs are and aren't "essential." There'd be a lot of poverty, a lot of hunger, and yes, it would cause a lot of people to die.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#273

Post by ehnto »

readingnews wrote: post #211

There is a crossfit gym that I pass by every morning on the way to work. It is full, and never stopped during this pandemic. Even at 7AM, it is full of patrons. I would call the "proper authorities", but since there is a State Police car parked outside every morning, and he is in there working out, just like before the pandemic, I doubt calling anyone would do anything. Adding to the post, I read it earlier... it is…

Let me preface: I've abstained from going to the gym since we went into lockdown, and even now that we are out of it here. I am looking into equipment at home, and I can at least keep my fitness, if not my strength, by going mountain biking.

That said, there are many types of training you can't do without the right equipment, so it's at least a bit more than just wanting to be with others. Strength training/powerlifting/olympic lifting all come to mind. It's often really difficult to keep a rack, barbell and hundreds of kilos of weight at home, and obviously not something people had just lying around in case of an emergency.

There is certainly a social aspect to it as well, I love training with a couple of friends, the atmosphere can't be replicated at home. But like I said, I've abstained, and I would have been hopeful others would have to.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#274

Post by dragosmocrii »

NullPrefix wrote: post #68
dragosmocrii wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The last couple months has done more damage than good to me. I'm that type of person who'll lose muscle quickly if stops working out for mote than 2 weeks. I also played a couple games of volleyball and tennis, and I'm so clumsy I'm embarrassed I lost control of my body. Meanwhile, thr local gyms havr silly rules to restrict people's access...

You should start drinking heavy. It's more legal and essential.

Amusing how liquor stores were deemed essential service, at least here in Canada

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#275

Post by Enginerrrd »

vharuck wrote: post #128
Enginerrrd wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd guess the threat model is something like: relatively low local disease prevalence rate, the likelihood that infected people show up to workout is lower than other activities like office-work, and relatively low likelihood of personal adverse outcomes in someone healthy enough to be going to an underground gym. Further, there are major benefits to psychological state, social/emotional state, mental acuity, health,…

>I'd love to see you try and add all that up in micromorts of personal risk and show me that it's actually a bad rational decision. On an individual level, I have no doubt you're right. The health benefits from exercise would definitely outweigh the risk of COVID-19 (assuming the individual's not over 65 or has a majorly risky health condition). But this is a pandemic, so decisions are made on the community level. Th…

I actually emphatically support the decisions of local public health authorities, OP just asked for some idea of what the people going to gyms were thinking.

Empathy =/= agreement.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#276

Post by baddox »

sushshshsh wrote: post #213
reaperducer wrote: post #63

It's not just gyms. It's underground bars, hair salons, hot stone yoga joints, and all kinds of things. While the hair salons were closed, my wife's hairdresser was texting her every three days to get her into her underground makeshift totally illegal hair place. And slightly realated, quarantines don't work when people aren't actually quarantined. There was an article in the newspaper last week or the week before ab…

"Totally illegal underground makeshift hair place" I'm confused, if the participants wear a mask, will the virus be transmitted or not?

That's roughly equivalent to asking "if someone drives drunk, will they kill someone else or not?" Many times, they won't hurt anyone, but I hope it's not controversial that driving drunk is still extremely dangerous.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#277

Post by ceejayoz »

honkycat wrote: post #233
readingnews wrote: post #211

There is a crossfit gym that I pass by every morning on the way to work. It is full, and never stopped during this pandemic. Even at 7AM, it is full of patrons. I would call the "proper authorities", but since there is a State Police car parked outside every morning, and he is in there working out, just like before the pandemic, I doubt calling anyone would do anything. Adding to the post, I read it earlier... it is…

Introverts vs extroverts. Humans are social animals. Socialization is a basic human need. It is much harder for some people to stay inside and not socialize than others. We are now on month 7 of being told to not socialize or see or do anything. I continue to obey the orders, but I totally get why some people are starting to crack.

> We are now on month 7 of being told to not socialize...

"Keep your distance, wear a mask, and stick to small groups" is not the same as "do not socialize".

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#278

Post by polote »

readingnews wrote: post #211

There is a crossfit gym that I pass by every morning on the way to work. It is full, and never stopped during this pandemic. Even at 7AM, it is full of patrons. I would call the "proper authorities", but since there is a State Police car parked outside every morning, and he is in there working out, just like before the pandemic, I doubt calling anyone would do anything. Adding to the post, I read it earlier... it is…

> I find it amazing we can not see short term sacrifice for long term gain.

Maybe because nobody successfully proved to these people (me included) that this sacrifice is useful.

You can't tell to people, you have no risk of dying (0.5% death rate for population, much much lower for healthy and young people), people who are at risk of dying can protect themselves even around sick people (wearing a mask, staying at home, washing hands, ...) so this is not your fault if they catch it but you need to stop living your life. That can't work.

And above all, what is the long term strategy, we stop everything for the rest of our lives ? (a vaccine doesn't always work, example the flu vaccine, which works approximately).

It is not that people don't want to sacrifice, it is just that scarifying is the worst solution for everyone

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#279

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

reaperducer wrote: post #63

It's not just gyms. It's underground bars, hair salons, hot stone yoga joints, and all kinds of things. While the hair salons were closed, my wife's hairdresser was texting her every three days to get her into her underground makeshift totally illegal hair place. And slightly realated, quarantines don't work when people aren't actually quarantined. There was an article in the newspaper last week or the week before ab…

> And slightly realated, quarantines don't work when people aren't actually quarantined.

Which is an excellent point, which may make some wonder if it was realistic to try in the first place. It's like imagine if the US govt forced everyone to lose weight and then was shocked that people were hoarding ding dongs in the underground market. "How dare those illegal ding dong hoarders break the law!"

If we're going to make laws that are fundamentally against human nature (see also drug prohibition laws, which is also has parallels to TFA), we shouldn't be surprised that some people don't follow these rules.

Re: Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition

#280

Post by tomn »

helaoban wrote: post #234
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #31

Did the "shutdown normal gym" mean that patrons would be violating whatever policies forced the gym to shutdown in the first place? If so, that really bothers me. Any excess contagion would endanger everyone, not just the gym users. Please consider reporting the details to the appropriate authorities. EDIT: If someone is inclined to downvote this comment, I'd be very grateful for a clarification why (comment or DM).…

You're being down-voted because snitches get stitches. Don't be the neighborhood rat.

That's not a logical reason. Rules in society are supposed to exist to the benefit of everyone.

We can have a discussion about whether this particular rule really does benefit everyone, but clearly the ones that do should be respected, otherwise what's the point?

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