US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat • Hacker News Board

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#271

Post by mareko » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 4:13 AM UTC

yyyk wrote: post #213

microcolonel wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because you live in a country with a functioning currency.

I keep hearing that, but I am not familiar with any data that shows actual widespread use by common people* in those countries without a functional currency. Most of these countries barely have a stable internet connection or even stable electrical power, so I wouldn't surprised if these 'currencies' aren't so helpful in practice. * Note that use by corrupt politicians to launder their ill-gotten gains is not a posit…

It's true that Bitcoin is a poor medium of exchange: it's not stable, has slow transaction times, does not work well with mobile devices, and has intimidating identifiers, but it did open the door to new ideas that will likely soon have a huge impact on exactly the uses you're describing.

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#272

Post by daveevad » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 4:13 AM UTC

vmception wrote: post #260

istjohn wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your logic, bank robbers are simply a manifestation of market forces. What did you expect to happen with all that cash in one place with no armed guards?

That analogy only works if banks were paying people to pretend to rob them all day every day and show them how they did it, and also underpaying them. so, no.

  Bank Secretary : So, people hire you to break into their places... to make sure no one can break into their places?

  Martin Bishop : It's a living.

  Bank Secretary : Not a very good one.

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#273

Post by jey » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 4:17 AM UTC

yyyk wrote: post #120

momokoko wrote: post #92

Let this be a lesson to those that say bitcoin and other cryptocurrency has no real value outside of speculation. This kind of attack would be almost impossible in the pre-bitcoin era. The difficulty of receiving that volume of money in that short of a period of time in a difficult to trace manner is a new thing. We are entering a new era where crime can pay in very large sums with orders of magnitude less complexity…

>Let this be a lesson to those that say bitcoin and other cryptocurrency has no real value outside of speculation. >This kind of attack would be almost impossible in the pre-bitcoin era.... Instead democratizing currency, we're democratizing large scale crime. Just wanted to make this same point - right now, cryptocurrency has negative value for society. Perhaps this is a justification for banning the current impleme…

How do you know that? Are you judging based on a representative sample of all uses of cryptocurrency, or the uses you hear about?

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#274

Post by nlh » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 4:19 AM UTC

rs41 wrote: post #137

nitrogen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CWT is used by corporate travel systems. I'd expect their margins to be similar to enterprise software vendors, rather than other travel agencies.

It depends if they report revenue gross or net. If it is gross that means they recognize all booked travel as revenue (and earn a margin on top of that) instead of just recognizing their fee as revenue. In that case it would be much worse margins than a mature SaaS company. If I had to guess based on the figure, I would guess gross but I'm not sure.

Sorry I should have clarified -- according to Wikipedia, they had $1.5 billion in actual net revenue by processing $23 billion in transaction volume (aka GMV).

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#275

Post by dangerboysteve » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 4:20 AM UTC

momokoko wrote: post #92

Let this be a lesson to those that say bitcoin and other cryptocurrency has no real value outside of speculation. This kind of attack would be almost impossible in the pre-bitcoin era. The difficulty of receiving that volume of money in that short of a period of time in a difficult to trace manner is a new thing. We are entering a new era where crime can pay in very large sums with orders of magnitude less complexity…

Western union was used to pay off parties in the past before Bitcoin.

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#276

Post by yyyk » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 4:24 AM UTC

jey wrote: post #273

yyyk wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Let this be a lesson to those that say bitcoin and other cryptocurrency has no real value outside of speculation. >This kind of attack would be almost impossible in the pre-bitcoin era.... Instead democratizing currency, we're democratizing large scale crime. Just wanted to make this same point - right now, cryptocurrency has negative value for society. Perhaps this is a justification for banning the current impleme…

How do you know that? Are you judging based on a representative sample of all uses of cryptocurrency, or the uses you hear about?

If there are any large scale positive uses of cryptocurrency, I'm sure that we would have heard of them by now; The proponents would have shouted them from the rooftops.

That said, proponents do have a shot at enlightening us (me and other viewers of the thread). What large scale positive application are you aware of?

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#277

Post by asiachick » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 4:31 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #164

momokoko wrote: post #92

Let this be a lesson to those that say bitcoin and other cryptocurrency has no real value outside of speculation. This kind of attack would be almost impossible in the pre-bitcoin era. The difficulty of receiving that volume of money in that short of a period of time in a difficult to trace manner is a new thing. We are entering a new era where crime can pay in very large sums with orders of magnitude less complexity…

>This kind of attack would be almost impossible in the pre-bitcoin era. Is it? VIPs are regularly held for ransom in unstable countries, so much so that ransom insurance is a thing[1]. If those ransoms can be safely received, why can't it be the case for ransomware ransoms? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnap_and_ransom_insurance

Does the average 16yr old hacker have access to currency in unstable countries. The average 16yr old does have access to bitcoin.

From the comment you were replying to

> we're democratizing large scale crime. Previously only large organized crime organizations could perform such an attack. Now, almost anyone can.

That seems true and the main point. That it's gotten significantly easier for anyone to do this.

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#278

Post by chii » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 4:33 AM UTC

momokoko wrote: post #92

Let this be a lesson to those that say bitcoin and other cryptocurrency has no real value outside of speculation. This kind of attack would be almost impossible in the pre-bitcoin era. The difficulty of receiving that volume of money in that short of a period of time in a difficult to trace manner is a new thing. We are entering a new era where crime can pay in very large sums with orders of magnitude less complexity…

> Instead democratizing currency, we're democratizing large scale crime.

democratization works both ways. A democratized currency facilitates both crime as well as the oppressed - after all, you cannot tell the difference between them under an oppressive regime.

What you implied that we should have is a democratized currency that's _only_ good for non-criminals (and used for "good purposes"). That's impossible. It's like asking for a gun that you can't commit a crime with, but can be used to defend yourself with.

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#279

Post by jjeaff » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 4:35 AM UTC

vmception wrote: post #257

seebetter wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like 95%+ of bitcoin is related to financial speculation, investing, DeFi etc etc. An order of magnitude of more drugs are sold on Cash App and Venmo -- which is why they're in rap songs. As for large scale hacking, extortion and ransom, yes bitcoin is used but it is increasing difficult to cash out in a large way.

> bitcoin is used but it is increasing difficult to cash out in a large way. But its not? You can convert 50 million usd worth of bitcoin in one order without moving the market more than 1-1.5% and have a wire transfer to your bank account same day. This happens all day every day, with the markets getting deeper year by year. Trash exchanges for retail have nothing to do with the infrastructure actually out there. If…

What exchanges allow you to move that kind of money?

Re: US travel firm $4.5M ransom negotiation open chat

#280

Post by joe_the_user » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 4:38 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #278

momokoko wrote: post #92

Let this be a lesson to those that say bitcoin and other cryptocurrency has no real value outside of speculation. This kind of attack would be almost impossible in the pre-bitcoin era. The difficulty of receiving that volume of money in that short of a period of time in a difficult to trace manner is a new thing. We are entering a new era where crime can pay in very large sums with orders of magnitude less complexity…

> Instead democratizing currency, we're democratizing large scale crime. democratization works both ways. A democratized currency facilitates both crime as well as the oppressed - after all, you cannot tell the difference between them under an oppressive regime. What you implied that we should have is a democratized currency that's _only_ good for non-criminals (and used for "good purposes"). That's impossible. It's…

How does a democratized currency help the oppressed?

It could help middle class people get their money out of a given country but otherwise, where's the benefit?